Leaving World of Warcrack - Page 2

SillyMonkey · 10-29-2006, 01:05 PM

So, wanna know what I see here? I see a whiner, a bitcher. I see a guy who doesn't want to accept responsibility for the problems he's created in his own life, something that can be traced to some of the first statements he made

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When I started playing, I was working towards getting into the best shape of my life (and making good progress, too). Now a year later, I'm about 30 pounds heavier that I was back then, and it is not muscle. I had a lot of hobbies including DJing (which I was pretty accomplished at) and music as well as writing and martial arts. I haven't touched a record or my guitar for over a year and I think if I tried any Kung Fu my gut would throw my back out.

That right there is a crock of shit in my opinion. You're not 30lbs heavier because of the game. You're 30lbs heavier because you ate more than you excercised. You ALLOWED that to happen. It wasn't thrust on you without your consent. Your hobbies? Let me tell you, I play a lot of MMO during the week, but I still make time for my Kung Fu. Thugs by the name of "Guido the Troll" and "Icepick the Night Elf" didn't jump out of the box and break your legs. This part right here REALLY gets me fumed

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Finally, and most significantly, I had a very satisfying social life before. My friends and I would go out and there were things to do every night of the week. Now a year later, I realize my true friends are the greatest people in the world because the fact I came out of my room, turned the lights on, and watched a movie with them still means something

This is an indication that none of the people I've met in game are my true friends. That I can't have, as part of an active social life, true friends online. Is that true? Somehow I think not. I've met some of the best people I know through the MMO circut, and I didn't have to sacrifice my social life to do it. Amazing.

This right here? Yeah, this part is great.

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I know of children and spouses being forced to play and grind for their parents, threats of divorce, rampant neglect, failing grades in school, and thousands of dollars spent on "outsourcing" foreign help. For what, you ask? Honor. The desire to be the best for at least one week. To get the best loot in the game.

Who's freaking fault is that these things happen? Blizzard's? Hmmm, nope. The fault rests with the INDIVIDUAL, not the inanimate game. It's not like suddenly you download the "Vritual Devil on my shoulder" patch that whispers in your ear that you should ditch your kids and play MMO's.

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The thing that kicked me in the ass more than anything else was I really cared if my guildies were getting what they wanted out of the experience. I truly thought my efforts would make them happy. I wanted to make a difference to them. The greedy and socially phobic high school kid I thought I could help through the game, all of the couples (both married and not) who were falling apart because of the game I thought I could rescue, the girl who was deeply wounded by a guy who left her for the game but was herself addicted I thought I could save, not to mention a host of others,

Who the Frag are you? Dr. Phil? It's not your freaking JOB to help everyone, Superman and it's even MORE arrogant to think that you can SAVE these people. Now don't get me wrong, we've all been there. Someone's having issues at work/home/personally and we step up and offer the shoulder and ear, do what we can to help. One of the BEST things about the guilds I've belonged to, is that focus on the PERSON not the toon that makes these guilds "das schize". The other thing that makes those guilds great is the fact that no one is arrogant enough to think they can SAVE people, and gods know that we've had our fair share that could've used it. This concept is just assinine. You can't save the melodramatic attention whores because they don't want to be saved. If they did, they wouldn't keep perpetuating the same shit.

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Then it hit me like a ton of bricks: I was providing them with an escape from their problems and nurturing the very thing that was holding them back. Oh yeah, it hit me like a ton of bricks after I had changed so much and lost enough of myself that the most wonderful girl I ever met broke up with me.

Dude, seriously. YOU were providing them and escape from thier problems? Think again, Mighty Mouse. You weren't that important. If it wasn't you, it would've been someone else. These people had issues that superceded the game. It wasn't the GAME that caused it, it was the individual in question refusing to take responsibility for thier freaking actions that caused it. Once again "Rico Suave the Human Warlock" and "Brad Pittbull the Tauren" had NOTHING to do with breaking up marraiges, missing anniverseries, and sure as shootin "Tony Hawkgrind the Ogre" didn't force the kid to NOT do his homework... no matter what that little brat says.

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I looked in the mirror and in a cinemaesque turn of events and a biblical moment of clarity, told myself "I haven't seen me in a while either."

That's because you decided to let your online persona become your real persona. Reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone I watch every year during the marathon called "The Dummy", where the dummy and the ventriliquist change places.

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There are a few others I keep in contact with and am planning on going to visit sooner or later so I can hang out in person and they can finally meet me. But in the end being forgotten about so soon after still left a bittersweet taste.

Two parts to this statement, showing two things. The first part shows that not all the time spent socializing in the game was a waste and that he met people that were worth seeing in person. The second part shows the egocentric "needed to be loved" leader figure. ugh, this is making me sick.

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Don't get me wrong, WoW did a lot of things right. At times it was a fun game that allowed me to keep in contact with friends who lived far away. More importantly it introduced me to some of the best real life friends I've ever met. However, it did take an undeniable toll on me and is taking a far greater one on many, many people when taken too far.

So in the end, he states the most important part of this long, drawn out inability to accept that he did this to himself. He made some of the best friends he's known. In the guilds I've been in, if I've been gone for too long, people are asking about me, e-mailing me, etc, and vice versa. It's the people that you meet that make the game, not the game itself.

And the last statement brings home an important point, one that should be used in ANY PART OF YOUR LIFE. To much of anything is a bad thing... except sex. Can't get enough of that, as has been proven in many of the guild chat sessions during the game =p

I'm sorry I drug this out and made it this huge post. People like this piss me off almost more than anything. These are the people who blame Colombine on the guns, on the video games, on the music and NOT on the fact that those kids had PADLOCKS ON THIER DOORS THAT NOT EVEN THE PARENTS HAD KEYS TO!! These are the Jack Thompsons in the world, providing statistics about how little johnny is getting F's because he plays too many video games or little Susie decided that riding her bike down the street and shooting people was ok and even right. These are the people who gloss over the fact that little jonny gets the XBox 360 as his babysitter and little susie's parents just didn't have enough time to spend with her to teach her what was right from what was wrong. In short, these are the people who provide the proper conditions for prejudice and intolerrance to grow. Who advocate the use of "blame" and denounce the use of "personal responsibility and accountability for one's actions"

This guy wants to blame his problems on a video game and not the lack of self control or common sense that led to these problems. He wants sympathy for what has happened to him, for what he brought upon himself. Well, I've got none, and were I to see him it would probably take a lot for me not to smack the fucking shit out of him then and there.

LFG · 10-29-2006, 04:56 PM

SillyMonkey, I hear what you're saying, and I agree that the individual is ultimately responsible for his or her own actions.

But I gotta ask you. If substances like methamphetamine are highly illegal to manufacture, distribute, use, or even possess, based on the addictions and problems they are known to cause, why are there no similar controls and oversight for MMOs?

I'm convinced that the original EverQuest and WoW are as addictive to some people as methamphetamine is to others who crave that as their drug of choice.

Why is one acceptable, and not the other? Both create unemployment and family problems, although I do agree EverCrack and World of Warcrack are less likely to cause people to burglarize homes and pawn other people's stereo equipment than addictions to crack cocaine and other dope. But there is still a degree of addiction with each, so why is one acceptable, and not the other?

I'm interested in this subject because I've previously had issues in my life that I wouldn't have had but for substance abuse on one hand or EverCrack on the other. I'm not saying anyone else BUT me is responsible for those problems in either case. And to give you a clear understanding of where I'm coming from, I'm a Libertarian, which means that I don't think the government should control or regulate almost ANYTHING. So I'm not saying the government SHOULD regulate MMOs based on their addictive qualities - but if they don't, why should they continue to regulate marijuana use?

I think it's rationalization to allow one addictive behavior, and not another. It makes no sense to me. This is all the same thing as far as I'm concerned.

Deson · 10-29-2006, 06:33 PM

The best answer for this is to look at the Prohibition era for the US. It actually created more trouble than it stopped.

Most things we allow or disallow are part of rationalization within a culture.Stickiing strictly with the point of addiction, in the US, alot of states oppose gambling because of it's potential for addcition and family destroying side effects. Hard drug addictions though simply cant be compared to MMO's for 1 major reason- MMO's, while they make make the brain act similar to those drugs, do not have the chemical component that destroys the ability to make a choice. Take crack, you're hooked from the start, MMO's don't make crack babies and I've never heard of anyone sucking dick for 5 more minutes of EQ/WoW(.

In SE Asia though,Thailand and Taiwan,have laws that require games to have diminishing returns the longer you play as a way to curb the behaviour. The west in general, especially the US, focuses alot more on personal responsibilty. It's good and it's practical for many reasons but especially this one- if the government got into the business of determining everything that was good and bad for you and embarked on the mission of protecting you from being human, you would have 0 freedom and essentially always be a child.

MMO's are no different than playing sports or any other entertainment/social activity. The major difference is how we look at it since it's a "video game" and non-contact.Aboutt he only thing I'll grant is that MMO's are far more accessible than just about any other form of entertainment today. Still though, there is nothing about MMO's that warrant them to be taken out of the hands of personal responsibility; they aren't chemical,they aren't subliminal and no one's going to come in and break your legs if you dont play for a week.If the addiction isn't forced by the product, it shouldn't be touched by the goverment.

SillyMonkey · 10-29-2006, 06:35 PM

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Originally Posted by LFG

SillyMonkey, I hear what you're saying, and I agree that the individual is ultimately responsible for his or her own actions.

But I gotta ask you. If substances like methamphetamine are highly illegal to manufacture, distribute, use, or even possess, based on the addictions and problems they are known to cause, why are there no similar controls and oversight for MMOs?

I'm convinced that the original EverQuest and WoW are as addictive to some people as methamphetamine is to others who crave that as their drug of choice.

I believe that the addiction isn't a physical based one like pharmecuticals. Now granted, usually what starts ANY addiction is the need to escape your life, but chemical based drugs actually cause physical addiction. While WoW, EQ1 or 2, SWG, Vanguard, etc. can be addictive in the sense that it's nice to escape the "World of Real" sometimes, but they do not constitute the same type of addiction as chemical drugs do.

The problem I have with this LFG, is that in today's society where more and more people have bought into the "I was molested as a child so it's not my fault I tried/did it to other people" (thank you Mark Foley for that WONDERFUL example) or "I was abused as a child so that's why I'm violent now", it becomes very easy to join the mob rules mentality of pointing the finger at today's FotM. When I was in grade school, it was D&D. Jr.High and High School, it was Heavy Metal music. Today, it's video games. A video game does not become addicting and start to ruin your life unless you allow it to do so. The same can be said about drugs, but after short time of using, your body becomes dependant on the physical stimulus, thus making it MUCH harder than just shutting off the computer. No video game is designed to ruin your life, but people like this guy and others who buy into the media hype of Rockstar games faults, or that video game violence is responsible for school or home violence or neglect, want us to believe that they do. It not only perpetuates a cycle of non-responsibility but gives an enjoyable pastime that allows you to make friends and blow off some steam, a bad name.

As I said in my last response to his closing arguments, ANYTHING in excess is bad for you. If you play to much MMO, then the problem lies with your life. Your need to escape into a realm of fantasy where you can be a god and MAKE that your life is an issue. The problems are usually apparent and can be dealt with, but you have to change those things. Chances are, that if a person became addicted to an MMO, he'd be addicted to something else if the MMO wasn't there.

I see your point of how a video game can be "seen" as addicting, but I don't agree that they are on the same level as something that can have severe physical repercussions like say a meth overdose,etc.

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Desnon said:
MMO's are no different than playing sports or any other entertainment/social activity. The major difference is how we look at it since it's a "video game" and non-contact.Aboutt he only thing I'll grant is that MMO's are far more accessible than just about any other form of entertainment today. Still though, there is nothing about MMO's that warrant them to be taken out of the hands of personal responsibility; they aren't chemical,they aren't subliminal and no one's going to come in and break your legs if you dont play for a week.If the addiction isn't forced by the product, it shouldn't be touched by the goverment.

oh yeah, and what he said since he got it in JUST before I got mine in!

Calthine · 10-29-2006, 06:43 PM

Any Psych 101 student can tell you there are two kinds of addiction: physical addiction, and psychological addiction. The real shit-kickers are things that involve both addiction types, like heroin and nicotine, which grab you by the neuroreceptors and also convince your psyche that you gotta have them.

If compulsive shopping is now being treated as a psychological disorder (and it is), MMO addiction should certainly qualify.

Now, that being said, IMO interpersonal problems 'caused' by an MMO are there because the addicted person is getting something from the MMO they seem to be lacking in the real world. IMO, this is often a sense of community. Unfortunately, in immersing themselves in thier MMO community people tend to neglect their real-life relationships.

I wonder if MMO addiction and the neglect of RL relationships because of it is any different than on person in a relationship getting hard-core religion, or suddenly getting deep into any other activity that takes them away from thier existing relationships?