Gonzo

Hello everyone, I am new to this site. I played EQ2 from release til about a month after DoF was released and then I left the game. I had a lv60 assassin in that time, so I am familiar with the base stuff of the class but when returning I feel like a Newb again. I am loving the game once again though.

Anyways to the point, I found this site looking for information on the AA tree. I have a reasonably clear path I want to follow, but I have a few points remaining and questions about how some of the upgrades are working if anyone has tried them in the past.

I am trying to focus this guy towards a high DPS raiding assassin.

Here's the design I have set up right now:

Predator Tree:

Strength Line

Blademaster's Strenght: 8 points
Bladed Opening: 4 points
Intercepting Blades : 4 points
Precision of Blades: 8 points
Perfectionist: 1 point

Intelligence Line

Nightshades Intelligence: 4 points
Poison Combination: 4 points
Neurotoxic Coating: 4 points
Toxic Expertise: 8 points
Intoxication: 1 point

* Ok here's some of the questions I have for this tree since I have 3 points left to spend here. I have already filled my STR, but have yet to start on my INT line so many of my question are concerning this line.

There are 3 places I am looking to spend these last 3 points: Nightshade Intelligence, Poison Combination, and Archer's Agility.

Nightshade Intelligence vs. Poison Combination

I noticed on the Sticky Thread about the AA tree, 7 points were thrown into Nightshade Intelligence. Which increases all spell damage including Poison if I am not mistaken?? Is that a strong place for the last 3 points OR...

The one I am eyeballing, Poison Combination. Is this one worth the upgrade to possibly 7 points?? The combination of having a Poisoned attack landing, hitting Enmesh and then Poison Combination seems like an avenue for some excellent DPS. Especially with Toxic Expertise and the decrease to the targets Poison Mit severely lowered.

Guess the question is which is more effective: Improving INT for extra poison damage or the extra damage from lowering the targets poison resist even greater and another hit from Poison Combination??

Anyone try this set-up to see how it works???

The last option is spend them in Archer's Agility, although this option is not one I will consider unless the boost in the other two isn't worth it. Doubtful, but the reason I would have this as my 3rd option is my guy is STR based over AGI. So a little more points in AGI to increase power is still helpful.

Now for the Assassin Tree.

Bleeding Line

Quick Strike: 5 points
Gash: 5 points
Impale: 5 points
Hidden Assault: 5 points
Excessive Bleeding: 1 point
Tricks Line

Cheap Shot: 3 points
Torture: 4 points
Cripple: 5 points
Mastery Strike: 5 points
Numbing Strike: 3 points
Repeated Stabbing: 1

Poison Line

Spikes: 5 points
Hemotoxin Poison: 3 points


The first question I have here and probably the most important is: Does the recast timer reduction from Torture and Mastery Strike stack with Repeated Stabbing??? Also the same with Perfectionist when it comes to Mastery Strike and Stealth'd Attacks.

As far as the Bleeding Line, I absolutely love this and it fits my playing style since I am always trying to keep my DoT's up throughout the entire fight. The only bubble in this tree that I wasn't impressed with was Assassin's Mark. Maybe if it was 2% for each AA point I would consider it but even so. In an Epic fight this proc seems to trigger quite often anyways. Before I start rambling about my love and affection to this line, I should move on.

The tricks line, IMO is awesome for only one reason: Repeated Stabbing. The rest of the bubbles in this tree just seem like pathways to Repeated Stabbing.

Cheap Shot is an awesome ability for named and solo mobs. I generally use it just before breaking out for a ranged attack followed by Contrived attack and back into melee combat. For group situations, pretty much only use is when I get aggro: Cool cause it gives me some time to turn off auto-attack, using hate reducers, and hope the tank gets aggro again. However I want to raid and this CA doesn't work on Epic's.

Numbing Strike is the same as Cheap Shot, great for named and solo mobs. Hardly even sticks on Epics.

Slice throat is pretty nice, although the problem I ran into here is I wanted to get to Hidden Assault and Numbing Strike would get me there while Slice Throat wouldn't.

Slice Throat and Numbing Strike were 2 I went back and forth on. What it came down to for me is Numbing Strike is useful in more applications that Slice Throat. Slice throat requires Stealth to be launched which IMO hinders why I use it. Numbing Strike and Slice Throat are both great against casters since they disrupt anything they are trying to do. I don't know anyone fast enough to see a caster casting, drop stealth and cast numbing strike before the spell goes off.

Onto to Cripple and Mastery Smite, the 2 I put the most points into. My character now isn't high enough level to have cripple but I do remember the CA from before and I loved it. Mastery Smite: well if Repeated Stabbing/Perfectionist effects stack with this reuse timer, I can't not put 5 point into this one.

Torture got 4 points for the same reason as Mastery Strike, but also because I trigger my HO's with this CA so having it refresh alittle quicker is a pretty nice for me.

Onto the Poison line. This is one I have been tossing around as well and worse I am not really sure how well Hemotoxin poison upgrades. I haven't found any information on this anywhere. Is it 2 seconds for every AA spend here??? If so, Hemotoxic Poison triggers every 4 seconds, so 2 points would make the poison; what? do an instant blast with all 4 triggers?? Not really sure how this works.

The Spikes bubble got 5 points simply because I love poisons and for the reason I stated above with Poison Combination. I might as well go all out.

However these last remaining 8 points I put into the Poison tree I am still tossing around. Here are the other options I came up with:

Spikes : 3 points
Hemotoxin Poison: 3 points
Murderous Focus and/or Honed Reflexes: 2 pointsor

Spikes: 3 points
Honed Reflexes: 5 points

Well there's the choices I have nailed it down to, not really sure which I will take. Guess the first option really depends on how Hemotoxin Poison works, and how well it functions with Poison Combination if I decide to go with that as well. If not, Honed Reflexes is an awesome buff simply because it's the only haste we Assassins get. Murderous Focus is a nice upgrade as well although I don't think I would put points into it over Honed Reflexes. I remember testing with a parse between these 2, and Honed always gave me better numbers. Guess I'll have to test it out again with these upgrades.

Finally the end, hehe.

So is there anything I am mis-informed on, someone who has tested and tried this set-up, or any other suggestions. It would be greatly appreciated from an old returning veteran.

Thanx in advance to anyone who took the time to read this post, I appreciate any insight/help you are willing to share with me. nI know it was a long and winded post but I wanted to explain my reasons for what I had rather than ask, which is better or should I go with. Also to those vets of the site, I know most of this has been asked repeatedly so if you have a link to somewhere that might help that would be appreciated as well, but your is most invited.

Thank you,
Gonzo

Steelbadger

I've gone with adding the points to INT, its a fairly large increase for a minimal loss, and INT ups your damage from MM, which is why I think it better than increasing your poison debuffs.

Quote:

Now for the Assassin Tree.

I think you misunderstand the function of Repeated Stabbing, it does not reduce recast time, it reduces the recovery time, this is an imposed delay after every CA in which you cannot cast another CA. Repeated stabbing is nice, but it is in no way as amazing as you assume.

I didn't bother with bleeding, as I felt the dps gained from the line to be too little for the AA outlay, but the assassin tree is completely flexible, each to his own. The mark upgrade is good for soloing and excessive bleeding helps solo and in groups too. It doesn't show up on the parse but it does have a decent effect, if you can maintain your bleeding abilities.

The stifle is of minimal use, and is used in raids as another plain backstab. Numbing strike and upgrades however are high damage and frontal, the root is of minimal importance in a raid, but the frontal damage is nice to have around.

The cripple upgrade is ok, the mastery strike is likewise nice, and will result in an ok damage increase against mobs for which you have mastery, but remember that it is not usable against all mobs. Also remember that Repeated Stabbing does not lower reuse timers and Perfectionist does not effect it either.

If you like :P

5 points in Hemotoxin makes a big difference, it halves the time in which it ticks (it hits for the same amount of ticks in less time). 5 points in Hemotoxin will result in Hemotoxin being a far better choice than caustic in all but the most extreme circumstances, this is a very important AA.

Personally I put a lot of AA's into my temp buffs, as I feel that greatly reducing the recast of Exacting (which is a very large dps boost when active) is better than adding 12 or so dps here and there. I rarely get haste buffed, so I put a lot of points into Honed reflexes and with all the orange mobs and my uncapped skills I put 5 points in focus. I'm pretty happy with my overall build.

The important points:

Each bleeding enhancement is a fairly small boost, you *may* see an increase of 100dps with an all bleeding spec, or you may see less.

Excessive Bleeding is a nice utility, but its usefulness is debated and will not help you if you want to parse high or be an efficient hate transfer for the MT.

Repeated Stabbing effects recovery time, not recast time, thus it makes a small difference, but is far far far from being a godlike ability

Hemotoxin is No. 1 (when you have the AA) until you can get either Poisoned Seeds of the Tender (crafted from books and drops in Emerald Halls) or you happen to be insanely haste and proc buffed, in which case caustic may be better.

Frontload is ok, again nothing earth shattering, it can provide some oomph in aoe encounters, but its effect on your zonewide will be pretty small

Getaway, whilest not direct dps is useful for when you find yourself stuck inside the range of Wuoshi's aoe :P

Hope that helps

Gonzo

First off, I'd like to thank you for replying.

Yeah shortly after I wrote the post I read that Repeated Stabbing does not effect Recast time but Recovery. :bummer:

I noticed you didn't like my reason for the 4 points into Torture.

The thing I used to pride myself on was being able to control HO's. The Torture line being the coin really helps with my ability to do this, especially if there gonna give me the option to decrease it's recast timer.

I am an HO kind of assassin, and being able to improve my recast on my main Coin trigger is a huge benefit. The Torture CA line I believe is one of the Assassins most useful and versatile art's. At first look, it may look like just a Defense Debuffer. Obviously, the duration of this spell is much longer than the recast so spending points to reduce it's casting time seems useless. However in my style, it is the one of the most used CA's. Before I used to hate that I would have to waste Deadfall, or Evasion to flip or trigger HO's.

Torture is an awesome start for the storm that will follow, here are some of the ones I use the most.

Fighting Chance + Torture =

Luck's Bite = If it is early in the fight, I will either flip using Deadfall and hope for "Raging Sword" or if it is later in the fight. I will let this one go, and follow it with this combo:

Fighter's Boot CA => Mask of Night => Assassinate or Deathly Blade if thats not up. Result: nice bonus damage from stealth'd attack.

"Raging Sword" IMO is probably the best opening you can have to a raid encounter. This HO is just amazing for keeping the aggro on the main tank. I always flip for it if it is not up. I feel that is my duty and having Torture come back faster after this is irreplaceable.

Arcane Augur + Torture =

All 3 of these possibilities are awesome. Two of them end in stealth attacks with add additional damage or a nice proc. The other is a really nice 4-tick DoT which must end with the scout.

As far as HO's that start with me, I always go for the Scout => Fighter => Mage HO's. If I see Ancients Embrace or Trinity Divide, I will usually flip it unless needed. Soldier's Gambit is very nice for me if my major damage art is up or I'll pass to the mage to finish. This one has a nice additional damage boost as well.

However on the rare occasion, I will call out for Scout => Fighter => Priest => Mage is when the Moon symbol is up for the priest step. Once it hits, I always want to be able to attempt a flip into "Past's Awakening". Finishing this one off with Massacre, which ends up netting x3 or x4 damage to all encounter mobs that are hit. That is alot of DPS if you got an encounter happening.

When I am not involved in the Heroic Opportunity, I like having my Coin ready for those ones that just suck: Divine Blade and Suffocating Wrath for example. The common Cleric HO's are just horrible and they occur a lot when you need something better.

I know there are other Coin CA's but I generally only use them if I have to flip the HO and Torture is refreshing or didn't land. The others are for other purposes, especially the stealth one since that is also I hate reducer.

But yeah Torture is something I may use differently than some, or just my play style and group/raid style is different. As far as DPS with this set-up, I have yet to have a problem. Of course this is all coming from pre-KoS, so I will be interested to see how it stands once I get to 100 AA.

The tough thing I had with alot of the buffs like Honed Reflexes is the finding the right time to use it. It's definitely tricky since you don't want to use it when your doing a series of CA's like a DoT sequence or setting up for a stealth => heavy strike.

Exacting from what I have read is pretty awesome. I will definitely try running that before going stealth strike crazy.

Well gotta get off to work, thanx again man.

Hoss

For the record, putting 3 pts in hemotixin doubled the ZW percentage for me. I have 5, but I'm not sure it does any good to do more than those 3. My best guess is that you just need to get it sped up enough so you are not constantly over-writing it. Which would mean that as i get more haste, maybe i would need more points.

Those spells you are talking about .... are those assassin spells? Some of them i recognized as earlier versions of my spells. But Luck's bite? Raging Sword?

Does anyone else purposely try to use the multi-class HOs? I only fire off the ones i can start and complete myself.

-h

__________________
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Lord, please pray for the soul of this bitch and guide my pimp hand and make it strong Lord, so that she might learn a hoe's place.

Amen

Badb

Luck's bite and raging sword are fighter-started HO's, Hoss. I try to use/turn ho's as much as i can too, some of them granting a neat bonus -not to mention the funky fireworks display- Gonzo's got a point with the constriction AA, it's handy to have the coin pop more often; handy to have constriction's timer on par with our ho starter and scraping blow too (that's the combo i use to try and trigger swindler's luck). Just my playstyle,however. (On a side note i sometimes wonder how spell consolidation is gonna affect our ability to turn ho's, but that's another story)

Gonzo

Awesome. Right now I am only sitting on 55 AA, just started back about 3 weeks ago and didn't get the expansion update until about a week after that. Once I get to 100 I'll definitely have alot of tooling to do, but I am checking out alot which is recommended here and in-game.

As far as poisons went, before I know I carried a good assortment of them depending on what I was fighting. My two favorite were Torment of Rijacki and Kendricke's Stifling. Kendricke's for certain epic's. I used Caustic for soloing. So hemotoxin, I gonna have to try because I don't remember if Rijacki was considered hemotoxin.

As far as triggering HO's. Yeah when grouping with a PUG I don't really worry about HO's or even see them going off, except someone just doing there own solo one. In regular group encounters, theres usually no need to set these off since you can cut down the mobs rather quickly anyways. As for tough epic fights (ones that take several minutes to kill) these are really helpful. Then again you have to really know the group your with, they have to know how to work HO's and which ones to use at certain points. Basically it something you need to have a steady guild group for. It's not for everyone that is sure, everyone has there own way of doing things. I'm not advocating for them just saying it's something I use.

Before the combat revamp, "Raging Sword" was one of the best hate transfers. Still is in my opinion, but Murderous Design has made it alot easier. Anyway "Raging Sword" is a Fighter HO => Coin(S) => Cloak(S) => Horn(F) that increase the fighter's attack speed for 90 sec, also does x4 damage and taunt. All placed on your Main Tank since they have to finish it. I've personally done "Assassinate" and "Deathly Strike" back to back while having "Brutal Focus" on and was still unable to pull aggro from the main tank. This HO is somewhat rare though.

For the solo Scout HO in groups, I usually go Lucky Break => Constriction (if Bravo doesn't show up) => Anathema (pray for Bravo) => Cheap Shot (oh it better have happened now) => Scrapping Blow. Hopefully I got Bravo, hehe.. Im just kidding, I don't hit all that but sometimes I will hit Anathema as well if I don't see Bravo the first time.

For soloing, I do something different. I go Lucky Break => Constriction => Cheap Shot => Surveil => (highest stealth attack available) => Mask of Night => Garrote => DoTs => Paralyzing Strike. Then out for ranged until the HO resets. For named, I start off with Assassin's Shot and as it comes in hit it with Assassin's Mark and Moor before HO. I use the Pliable Clay Leggings (if available) for a Ward just before starting.