40 New AA pts - Page 12

Karel · 10-21-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajinia

(...) As for bow CAs, I don't use them much because I haven't figured out a good timing to use them (laugh again if you want

). I'll go practice more then I guess =/ (...)

Since you have SDL whenever you back off to use your bow you should start with Assailing Blast, with its 1 sec cast it's always a good chance at getting your Permeating Darkness to proc. If it does, I use the waiting period to cast Intoxication.

On a properly debuffed mob SDL is most of the time a 7k - 10k sure hit (that's using T8 ammo though).

This is always asuming your CAs are down. Then bow is an excellent choice while everything refreshes.

Jayad · 10-21-2007, 02:57 PM

I agree with Az. One line in KOS could benefit a specific class (say, STR and AGI). The other ones should be good for both, at least in what they are intended to do. But we're not talking about rangers here anymore I hope

Gonzo · 10-21-2007, 03:17 PM

For those Rangers who think we got so much more from the 40 extra AA than you. Please Understand this. In the KOS tree, the 2 best for us are STR and INT. Which with 50 points we can already build strong here and the next 20 probably won't be added to this tree by most Assassin's. The Best are the Crit Bonus and the final Ability. Everything else is just there to get to 22 points spend for final line.

STA seems to be the predicted best however Surrounding Attacks has several limitations for us. The biggest being we have to be in melee range which our melee range sucks ball. We pretty much have to be almost up the mobs ass to hit them so having that magical point have melee range on more than just our target is going take almost perfect placement to go off.

The WIS line ends with a +8% to stealth attacks. Sounds great but here's the thing. It only works with Slip Away, which can not be cast in battle. Stealth which as you know already has a slow casting time and rarely do we ever use this in battle. Surveil is the only one with potential but however it is only used in combination with Cloaked since they are on an identical recast. Cloaked has a nice damage rating (bout 1k base, so only 80 extra damage) but the best part about it is the DoT which Obfuscation will not effect and the recast. What this doesn't work on is Concealment which is the CA we use to string most of our Stealth Attacks too.

The AGI line equally as good as a Ranger taking the melee crit line. Our ranged attacks are mostly CA's but I don't see a Assassin using Ranged Auto any more than a Ranger using Melee Auto. Poise would be nice to have but not enough points since Intoxication and Perfectionist will always be used beforehand.

Onto our EoF tree which is were we aren't very good. The Bleeding line looks nice if you have never played an Assassin but half those abilities aren't great because they only effect the DoT. Quick Strike is not a great ability and it's DoT is almost non-existant (50-ish dot) which the bonus is pretty bad. Gash is alittle better but is only good because of it's Termination effect which is again unaffected by an upgrade. Impale is pretty decent as well as Hidden Assault which together is about 100 extra DPS, WOW!!! Assassin's Mark is a duration which means it will always go off before the duration ends, so the increase to trigger is only applicable when fighting trash where you would like it to trigger before the mob is killed. Excessive Bleeding is nice but does not show up on the parse and requires us to keep our DoT's up to have some effect.

Onto the Tricks line: Cheap Shot, Cut Throat, and Numbling Strike upgrade an are of the CA that does NOT effect Epics. Torture is pretty much you either put 5 points so you can have your HO macro all on the same recast or you forget about it. IF you forget about it, no Cripple which is ok in that it adds about 8-10 to defense reduction but Cripple is on the hardest CA's for an Assassin to use because you have to be almost positioned perfectly with the Mob to have it go off. Mastery Strike is the only useful one if you have it for what your fighting. Repeated Stabbing is ok but NOT nearly as good as Poise since our CA are already on a fast recast and recovery time.

The physicality line is ok, but Sprint is completely useless and a waste of 3 points. Deft Defense is a nice upgrade but then again only for soloing and you can solo must stuff without it. Honed Reflexes doesn't upgrade all that well, Murderous Focus upgrades slightly better, and Exacting is pretty useful. Getaway is nice but then again how many points do you want to waste to get there. BTW Getaway is nice to avoid AoE but we must remain in stealth, time correctly or we can lose alot of DPS using it.

Onto the Poison line: Spikes and Hemo are pretty mandatory for us and are 2 of the best in the EoF tree. It doesn't really add a whole lot to damage from the upgrade but Hemo upgrades allows us to trigger more poison since we don't lose charges due to overlapping since they do NOT stack. Apply Poison has a decent upgarde but it has NO effect on our DPS, although it helps the tank keep argo along with Ignornant Bliss. Attribute speaks for itself but it's more of a utilty poison and regardless does not upgrade very well. Frontload is only as good as your equipment since it has a long recast and short duration. Great for trigger the Robe of Battle but I can count on my hand how many Assassin's actually have this.

So in a nutshell, only maybe 7 out 20 are useful in some way. And only 3-4 of them show a signifigant upgrade. All end abilities are useful in there own way but not exactly overpowering or anything that gives us an advantage over any other class.

As for what I see on the Rangers side of the EoF tree, you got alot of Damage upgrades, poison Upgrades and reuse timer upgrades. I would rather see recast upgrade on stuff like Cut Throat and Numbling Strike since the upgrade on them now are all but worthless in end-game.

Pinski · 10-21-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

STA seems to be the predicted best however Surrounding Attacks has several limitations for us. The biggest being we have to be in melee range which our melee range sucks ball.

And Warriors, Crusaders, Swashbucklers(most don't currently get Reach that PvE since it's not worth it over the other options) don't have to be at the same point as you for their AE Auto-Attack to go off? I'm sorry, but you're arguments on this 1 point is full of shit.

Hoss · 10-21-2007, 09:40 PM

Actually, there are 2 in combat stealths. dont forget about the lvl 1 stealth. Second, the cast times of those 2 are like .25 sec with 8 in that ability.

-h

Lokeey · 10-22-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

For those Rangers who think we got so much more from the 40 extra AA than you. Please Understand this. In the KOS tree, the 2 best for us are STR and INT. Which with 50 points we can already build strong here and the next 20 probably won't be added to this tree by most Assassin's. The Best are the Crit Bonus and the final Ability. Everything else is just there to get to 22 points spend for final line.

STA seems to be the predicted best however Surrounding Attacks has several limitations for us. The biggest being we have to be in melee range which our melee range sucks ball. We pretty much have to be almost up the mobs ass to hit them so having that magical point have melee range on more than just our target is going take almost perfect placement to go off.

The WIS line ends with a +8% to stealth attacks. Sounds great but here's the thing. It only works with Slip Away, which can not be cast in battle. Stealth which as you know already has a slow casting time and rarely do we ever use this in battle. Surveil is the only one with potential but however it is only used in combination with Cloaked since they are on an identical recast. Cloaked has a nice damage rating (bout 1k base, so only 80 extra damage) but the best part about it is the DoT which Obfuscation will not effect and the recast. What this doesn't work on is Concealment which is the CA we use to string most of our Stealth Attacks too.

The AGI line equally as good as a Ranger taking the melee crit line. Our ranged attacks are mostly CA's but I don't see a Assassin using Ranged Auto any more than a Ranger using Melee Auto. Poise would be nice to have but not enough points since Intoxication and Perfectionist will always be used beforehand.

Onto our EoF tree which is were we aren't very good. The Bleeding line looks nice if you have never played an Assassin but half those abilities aren't great because they only effect the DoT. Quick Strike is not a great ability and it's DoT is almost non-existant (50-ish dot) which the bonus is pretty bad. Gash is alittle better but is only good because of it's Termination effect which is again unaffected by an upgrade. Impale is pretty decent as well as Hidden Assault which together is about 100 extra DPS, WOW!!! Assassin's Mark is a duration which means it will always go off before the duration ends, so the increase to trigger is only applicable when fighting trash where you would like it to trigger before the mob is killed. Excessive Bleeding is nice but does not show up on the parse and requires us to keep our DoT's up to have some effect.

Onto the Tricks line: Cheap Shot, Cut Throat, and Numbling Strike upgrade an are of the CA that does NOT effect Epics. Torture is pretty much you either put 5 points so you can have your HO macro all on the same recast or you forget about it. IF you forget about it, no Cripple which is ok in that it adds about 8-10 to defense reduction but Cripple is on the hardest CA's for an Assassin to use because you have to be almost positioned perfectly with the Mob to have it go off. Mastery Strike is the only useful one if you have it for what your fighting. Repeated Stabbing is ok but NOT nearly as good as Poise since our CA are already on a fast recast and recovery time.

The physicality line is ok, but Sprint is completely useless and a waste of 3 points. Deft Defense is a nice upgrade but then again only for soloing and you can solo must stuff without it. Honed Reflexes doesn't upgrade all that well, Murderous Focus upgrades slightly better, and Exacting is pretty useful. Getaway is nice but then again how many points do you want to waste to get there. BTW Getaway is nice to avoid AoE but we must remain in stealth, time correctly or we can lose alot of DPS using it.

Onto the Poison line: Spikes and Hemo are pretty mandatory for us and are 2 of the best in the EoF tree. It doesn't really add a whole lot to damage from the upgrade but Hemo upgrades allows us to trigger more poison since we don't lose charges due to overlapping since they do NOT stack. Apply Poison has a decent upgarde but it has NO effect on our DPS, although it helps the tank keep argo along with Ignornant Bliss. Attribute speaks for itself but it's more of a utilty poison and regardless does not upgrade very well. Frontload is only as good as your equipment since it has a long recast and short duration. Great for trigger the Robe of Battle but I can count on my hand how many Assassin's actually have this.

So in a nutshell, only maybe 7 out 20 are useful in some way. And only 3-4 of them show a signifigant upgrade. All end abilities are useful in there own way but not exactly overpowering or anything that gives us an advantage over any other class.

As for what I see on the Rangers side of the EoF tree, you got alot of Damage upgrades, poison Upgrades and reuse timer upgrades. I would rather see recast upgrade on stuff like Cut Throat and Numbling Strike since the upgrade on them now are all but worthless in end-game.

This 8% buff for the next CA does not in any way effect slipaway. And while yes sneak takes forever to cast if you know the mob is about to go down and you need to get in one last stealth hit a 1 second cast timer is better than 2 seconds especially if going into sneak gives you a dps boost.

While the 28% auto attack aoe would be nice for zonewide encounters/parses I could see where this would get you into trouble with pulling aggro (IE the warlock effect). And for people who would say "well you can just click the buff off for those times" well what would be the point of having aoe auto-attack if you can't use it or it gets you killed.

Azleya · 10-22-2007, 12:45 AM

Gonzo, assassins being able to take sta line is a far, far better upgrade than anything rangers can take in the KoS tree. Everything you said about the str and int lines for assassins applies equally to the agi and int lines for rangers.

As for the EoF side, first of all, there are no recast reductions in the ranger tree. The bonuses to CA's in the ranger tree's primary dps line are equally as marginal as those in the assassin tree's. The only thing that makes the ranger version of the line decidedly better is the final double attack ability. Rangers get 1 damage poison upgrade, just like assassins. Conservation does not improve poison damage. The two classes also get basically equivalent AA's for their self buffs. What really makes the assassin tree better overall in the long run (at 70 points) is that their only 'solo' line (with Repeated Stabbing at the end) still has a few things in it that are at least marginally useful to raiders, including a final ability that is good enough to make the line currently be taken by most assassins. The ranger tree, on the other hand, is saturated with many abilities (basically 2 whole lines) that are completely useless to raiders. Thus, the assassin tree is significantly better for the next 20 points.

-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of Strike
Lucan D'Lere

Lokeey · 10-22-2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azleya

Gonzo, assassins being able to take sta line is a far, far better upgrade than anything rangers can take in the KoS tree. Everything you said about the str and int lines for assassins applies equally to the agi and int lines for rangers.

As for the EoF side, first of all, there are no recast reductions in the ranger tree. The bonuses to CA's in the ranger tree's primary dps line are equally as marginal as those in the assassin tree's. The only thing that makes the ranger version of the line decidedly better is the final double attack ability. Rangers get 1 damage poison upgrade, just like assassins. Conservation does not improve poison damage. The two classes also get basically equivalent AA's for their self buffs. What really makes the assassin tree better overall in the long run (at 70 points) is that their only 'solo' line (with Repeated Stabbing at the end) still has a few things in it that are at least marginally useful to raiders, including a final ability that is good enough to make the line currently be taken by most assassins. The ranger tree, on the other hand, is saturated with many abilities (basically 2 whole lines) that are completely useless to raiders. Thus, the assassin tree is significantly better for the next 20 points.

-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of Strike
Lucan D'Lere

Who are these assassins and where are the hiding? So far everyone I've talked to who is an assassin seems to go away from repeating stabbing (while the final ability is nice the entire line except for SS upgrade is crap for raiding) Most seemed to have been speced for bleeding/poison.

Hoss · 10-22-2007, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lokeey

This 8% buff for the next CA does not in any way effect slipaway. And while yes sneak takes forever to cast if you know the mob is about to go down and you need to get in one last stealth hit a 1 second cast timer is better than 2 seconds especially if going into sneak gives you a dps boost.

While the 28% auto attack aoe would be nice for zonewide encounters/parses I could see where this would get you into trouble with pulling aggro (IE the warlock effect). And for people who would say "well you can just click the buff off for those times" well what would be the point of having aoe auto-attack if you can't use it or it gets you killed.

Stealth and Surveilance are the 2 that give the 8% bonus. They are both in-combat stealth abilities that have either a .5 or .25s cast time (can't remember for sure) when you have 8 pts in obfuscate. I'm not sure what sneak is or where you got the 1s cast time.

I think the warlocks that are pulling aggro are doing a helluva lot more aoe damage than we'll be doing. Think more along the lines of swashies ae damage. They don't pull a lot of aggro.

Oh and I can show ya 2 assassins in game that are spec'd RS. In fact, I'm the only one I know in game with 50 pts in KoS who didn't take RS. Someone said cochy had it too.

-h

Azleya · 10-22-2007, 02:31 AM

Hoss said in a previous post in this thread that most assassins currently have Repeated Stabbing. If that's not true, ok, but it still seems like at least a decent end ability to me.