Exessive Bleeding AA= more hate?? - Page 2

Gonzo · 12-20-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skratt

Thing is going exacting 5 puts it exactly on the same recast as fronload

(cause exacting recast timer starts after effect wears off)

Not sure why this is better. I dunno personally I would rather have any of my 5 bleeders take 1% of an epic's health away which not even Execute can do. In less than 3 seconds I can watch an epic's health percentage drop by 5%, theres no other skill that does this.

aduros · 12-20-2007, 12:20 PM

I agree, I find it 10x more valuable to put that point into the bleeding endline ability, versus shaving 8 seconds more off Exacting's recast.

hcre · 12-20-2007, 12:58 PM

I could be wrong on this, but I did some minimal testing and think I am right.

When you get a max health buff, your health percentage stays the same, but your max increases. So if you are at like 50% health and someone buffs your max health by 2k, you will get a 1k rise to your actual health. This because your percentage of 50% health is maintained. If you were at 75% health you would have gotten 1,500 actual increase. If you where at 100% health you would stay at 100% health and therefore get the full 2K.

The reason it does it like this is because back at some point in EQ1 recasting max health buffs was more effective than healing, since it always gave you whatever the max health bonus was in actual health.

My understanding is that debuffs work the same way, sort of. When you debuff them, they maintain their percentage of HP. So if you debuff a mob for say 2k and it is at 100% health then it will lose 2k hp, if the mob is still at 100% when the debuff wears off, they get all those HPs back. If the mob is at 75% and you debuff it for 2K of its max health, then it will only lose 1500 actual hit points. And once the debuff wears off, if it is at 75% still, then it gets 1500 HP back.

Now for how EB is useful. If the mob has 1 mil HP and you get an EB enhanced CA off. That will take 10K off the max hp. Let’s say the mob was at 100% health and EB took him down to 990k hp, but since 990K is the new max while EB is active the mob stays at 100%. But then lets say you get a good execute off and you and the raid drop the mob down to 90% health or 891K hp. Then when EB wears off, the mob will get 10K back to its max health, but will only get 9k (90% of 10K) to its actual health. So in effect EB did 1K damage to the mob.

All debuffs generate hate, but it usually isn’t that much hate.

What I want to know is does EB affect DPS. Even though it obviously increases the damage you do, I don’t think this damage shows up in logs, and therefore I don’t think it could show up on ACTS. If this is the case then assassins who care more about personal DPS than successful raids would probably not want to use EB in favor of things that have more visible DPS increases.

aduros · 12-20-2007, 01:20 PM

To put it in the simplest terms possible: when the debuff is active, the mob's health drops faster than normal. Also it won't show up on ACT or anything like that; however, once you have RS, Frontload, and Exacting(4) it's the best places to spend your points.

Hoss · 12-20-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortisar

I did reroll a few weeks and i got eb, really get more agro now.

On raid If you are not in the mt group someone cast transfer agro in other player? healer maybe? (dont melee on group, only bard)

Put it on the necro. Or put it on the next highest DPSer in your group. We are assassins, we are sneaky bastards. We do whatever it takes to top the parse. It is not enough to win, we must demolish the competition.

-h

Gonzo · 12-20-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcre

Now for how EB is useful. If the mob has 1 mil HP and you get an EB enhanced CA off. That will take 10K off the max hp. Let’s say the mob was at 100% health and EB took him down to 990k hp, but since 990K is the new max while EB is active the mob stays at 100%. But then lets say you get a good execute off and you and the raid drop the mob down to 90% health or 891K hp. Then when EB wears off, the mob will get 10K back to its max health, but will only get 9k (90% of 10K) to its actual health. So in effect EB did 1K damage to the mob.

All debuffs generate hate, but it usually isn’t that much hate.

What I want to know is does EB affect DPS. Even though it obviously increases the damage you do, I don’t think this damage shows up in logs, and therefore I don’t think it could show up on ACTS. If this is the case then assassins who care more about personal DPS than successful raids would probably not want to use EB in favor of things that have more visible DPS increases.

Exactly. The actual percentage you see on a mob does not decrease, just wanted to clear that up before someone posted later that EB is NOT working properly. The effect is it decreases the mob's Max Health which will have the same effect like you stated above. Like a mob that has 6 million health and it is at 5%, or 300,000 health remaining. Basically what you have done is decreased it's max health to 5.94 million and its current health from 300k to 297k (5.94k * 5%). Which becomes CA damage + 3k extra damage to the mob health per bleeder used at this point.

Now if your able to maintain Scarring Blow and Deadly Impale through out the fight. At 100% you have decreased it's health total by 120k and at 5% by 6k with the effect always diminishing as the mob loses health. To put simply, what this does is make the mob die faster which is always a good thing.

As far as DPS is concerned, you have to remember what DPS is. It's the amount of damage done divided by the time of the encounter. EB will shorten the time of the encounter because of it's effect. It does not change the amount of damage you do because each bleeder with EB is still CA damage + max health debuff. So you keep the damage but shorten the fight which results in INCREASED DPS. It doesn't show up on the parse as "Excessive Bleeding did "x" DPS" but the effect still influences the numbers you get.

Ardain · 12-21-2007, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoss

Put it on the necro. Or put it on the next highest DPSer in your group. We are assassins, we are sneaky bastards. We do whatever it takes to top the parse. It is not enough to win, we must demolish the competition.

-h

*g*
Or you can put it on a healer/bard.

. Works fine. (Maybe not the dps obsessed trouba or the fury

.)

Catseyes · 12-21-2007, 04:49 AM

omg -h- you made me smile evilly =]

Hoss · 12-21-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

As far as DPS is concerned, you have to remember what DPS is. It's the amount of damage done divided by the time of the encounter. EB will shorten the time of the encounter because of it's effect. It does not change the amount of damage you do because each bleeder with EB is still CA damage + max health debuff. So you keep the damage but shorten the fight which results in INCREASED DPS. It doesn't show up on the parse as "Excessive Bleeding did "x" DPS" but the effect still influences the numbers you get.

Yes gonzo, EB does affect the amount of damage you do. It DECREASES IT! Re-read what you and a few others have said about it making the mob die faster. It makes the mob die faster by taking away some of its hps. If you keep the debuffs up and knock 200k off of his hps, thats 200k damage that people in your party did not have to do. So bottom line is, EB has no effect on your dps because it shortens the time of the encounter AND lessens the amount of damage done.

I mean, unless you have ADD and can't quite hold it together and keep mashing buttons for the last few seconds of a fight. But thats a personal problem, not a game mechanic. Go see the chaplain about your personal problems, we can't help you here.

There is a reason why we use DPS as our standard rather than total damage done. Its not subject to mathematical trickery.

-h

Hoss · 12-21-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catseyes

omg -h- you made me smile evilly =]

Heh, I almost forgot, I even once put it on another assassin. Afterwards, he told me he thought it was a bug that he had 2 murderous design icons up. I tried to put it on a swashie once, but he saw it and put his transfer on me. Since we were both parsing about the same, and he had more aggro management, it wasn't a good deal for me.

-h