Gummby8

I havnt gotten to crunch any numbers on this topic yet and for all I know I could be completly wrong. Up untill we assassins get our mythical wep our auto attack was not as important as spamming CAs was. Now that our mythical wep has some DA but more importantly the flurry, I had a thought (scary right).

Since concealment prety much turns off auto attack for 7 seconds we are missing on 2-3 auto attacks which have the chance to proc flurry/DA.

Now if you want to make a perfect world situation where hit rates and crits are 100% we would be auto attacking for 4-5k with each hand, and the chance for DA and flurry, wich needless to say is a bit more than 50% of the attacks we use durring the concealment chain. So prety much if you have the mythical the only time you should ever hit conceal again is if you have every backstab ready (execute may be optional) This was pretty much the standard rule to begin with, but I had heard of some that would blow conceal just to use 3-4 backstabs.

The way I see it with all the borked hit rates in VP a concealment chain as a gamble at best, you are prety much using it only to power up FF and use execute and deathly blade, and who is to say you will land half of the backstabs required to power up FF anyway? And if one should miss well your SOL for the next couple of seconds because putting a broken conceal chain back together is a pita.

discuss/flame whatever

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Pinski

How is concealment a gamble?

CAs have a higher hit-rate than Auto-attack. Therefore, concealment is always useful, except with gay Damage Shields that make stealth unusable.

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All of the seasons and all of the days
All of the reasons why I've felt this way
So long...
So long
Then lost in that feeling I looked in your eyes
I noticed emotion and that you had cried
For me
I can see

Vaanir

FoB.

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Pokie

I see your point, but I think even a modest concelment chain of just pinpoint, jugular, moonblade, slate & stealth assault plus FF can net you about 35-40k damage (taking into account the mythical 30% bonus to stealth attacks).

If you hit 4k Auto attack 5 times with your flurry and it goes off on each of the three swings you miss during concealment thats 60k. But the flurry proc is only 15% so that would bring the realistic expectation closer to about 9k.

Plus, as Pinski said, I think you have the hit rate thing backwards. CA's hit upwards of 99% of the time while AA hit rates on orange mobs drops significantly, so I think there is still benifit to concealment. Although that may change somewhat when they get in the new hit rate mechanics.

P.S. Apparently FoB has reached the point in its life cycle where it has become funny again, cause I laughed at that.

Kall

Anyone who doesn't hit auto attack in the middle of a concealment chain is a moron. If your main hand misses, pop your racial CA, poison combination, or something else and continue your chain. If your mainhand hits, which is the majority of the time, grats on an extra 5-15k damage for pushing 1 button.

Gummby8

I totaly forgot about that whole effect. Thankyou for killing my whole argument. And I am now a better assassin for it.

Edit: Kall, I actualy never thought of taping the ~ key in the middle of a concealment chain, Im usualy running alacrity+repeated stabs+agi line = I can click as fast as posible and it still isnt fast enough, I'll have to give that a shot.

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Gaige

Uh, I'm a moron then, I never fuck with auto attack during concealment. I spam as many stealth CAs as I can (usually masked/pinpoint twice) so I can maximize the damage of FF.

As for not using concealment with your mythical, you're a complete fucking moron if you do not. The 30% damage bonus to stealth CAs is probably the best effect on our mythical. I've hit for 15k with moon, 24k with mortal and 53k with execute not to mention 25~26k fatal followups.

The only time I don't use concealment is on shit with DSes like Calaglin said and I don't think I'll be able to get a full chain off before it breaks.

Even with my mythical my auto attack has never been more than 43% of my zonewide and that is with 85% crit and 45%'ish DA.

I don't have a crit robe though so most of my gear focuses on +crit or +CA, however if I had a robe like the cheaters do and could focus on +DA more, I might be able to tip my zw in favor of auto attack, but I still doubt it because of our fucked up hit rates.

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Cleansing the internet of e-whores since 2003! Just saying!

Skratt

I used to Kall but then i discovered its better for me at least to pop one ranged auto atack then run concealment (depending on mob... particularly mobs where ae dodging is important it works good)

You get lucky u get a double attack for 10k a peice...20k dmg u did not have

And yes the +30% to Stealth attacks > flurry

Heck parsing over an Mythical Wizard and Necro is doable even without your mythical if you get this down .....

Of course in longer fights is when mythical shines... i dont have mine yet so im expecting to win the ZW by large margins once i get mine

Satinah

If your trying to say that throwing a ranged shot > taping melee 2-3 times durring conceal you are wrong. I personally never use ranged except on the pull if the mob is far enough to justify it (which they usually are) or if i get knocked back. . . or on a fight i cant melee and have to joust. You just gotta know at what point its worth it and decide that on the go. A 10k bow crit 'looks' good, but doesnt come close to what will be missing out from not auto attacking. For the 1 time you double attack for 20k there will be 10 times you'll be crippling your dsp trying to do it again.

There should not be a time when your auto attack doesnt swing when its due unless forced otherwise or knocked back and for all the poeple that keep saying that assassins should just be spamming CAs i can tell them right now that they wont be able to come within 20-30% of the dps i am/you should be doing. Its more like dancing and knowing what to cast when and where your dps comes from, once you lose your rhythm your dps takes a nose dive. Mobs that stun are a good example of what i am talking about, 2-5sec stun can pretty much cut your dps in half at times when in reality it shouldnt.

The difference is not as big as it used to be prior ROK though, a shitty assassin couldnt brake 1-1.5k back then and it was very clear who sucked and who didnt, now the same people think they are 'leet' cause they are toping parses with all the new uber raid buffs and super amazing gear, so yes, the whole game has become a spam fest to some extend, but your still a shitty assassin none the less in my book. Everyone is rolling an assassin these days, kinda makes me sad considering ive been one forever and have loved the class every step of the way, not so much today though and more so when gimped and still toping parses during the ranger/mage eras when everyone rerolled and i had all the masters to myself ;p.

Btw, i am not pointing fingers at anyone, just thinking out loud.

Satinah

If your trying to say that throwing a ranged shot > taping melee 2-3 times durring conceal you are wrong. I personally never use ranged except on the pull if the mob is far enough to justify it (which they usually are) or if i get knocked back. . . or on a fight i cant melee and have to joust. You just gotta know at what point its worth it and decide that on the go. A 10k bow crit 'looks' good, but doesnt come close to what will be missing out from not auto attacking. For the 1 time you double attack for 20k there will be 10 times you'll be crippling your dsp trying to do it again.

There should not be a time when your auto attack doesnt swing when its due unless forced otherwise or knocked back and for all the poeple that keep saying that assassins should just be spamming CAs i can tell them right now that they wont be able to come within 20-30% of the dps i am/you should be doing. Its more like dancing and knowing what to cast when and where your dps comes from, once you lose your rhythm your dps takes a nose dive. Mobs that stun are a good example of what i am talking about, 2-5sec stun at the wrong time can pretty much cut your dps in half when in reality it shouldnt, cause didnt you get all your CAs out anyway?

The difference is not as big as it used to be prior ROK though, a shitty assassin couldnt brake 1-1.5k back then and it was very clear who sucked and who didnt, now the same people think they are 'leet' cause they are toping parses with all the new uber raid buffs and super amazing gear, so yes, the whole game has become a spam fest to some extend, but your still a shitty assassin none the less in my book. Everyone is rolling an assassin these days, kinda makes me sad considering ive been one forever and have loved the class every step of the way, not so much today though and more so when gimped and still toping parses during the ranger/mage eras when everyone rerolled and i had all the masters to myself ;p.

Btw, i am not pointing fingers at anyone, just thinking out loud.