victer

Let me start off by saying i was one of the first people to cry when i seen what we get for a mythical compared to gaurdians. I even went as far as to pwr leveling my assasin alt becuase i felt that zerkers were eventually not going to be needed in raids. Altho i still feel that we got the shaft huge time compared to our fighter counterparts the class is still fun as hell to play and still needed in any raid.

Zerker DPS...
What the heck is with all these people saying that gaurdians can do comparably the same ammount of DPS as a zerker?

I donno about you guys but if i pull out all my DPS gear i pretty much am top 2-3 on parse doing 3.5-5.5k dps regularly with the raidforce doing 50-60k. The gaurd in my guild doesnt suck and he parses 2-3k.
Us zerkers once we get key (easy to get) dps gear like the ring from Malevolence and Ire its really not hard to get 100% double attack and 90+ Crit(with jugger) while also being at the soft cap (90ish) for haste and dps mod and this is all just with SOLO BUFFS! Once we get more buffs from the grp we are dps machines..... and NO OTHER class can touch us on AE dps if there is at least 4 mobs in the encouter. And no i dont have my mythical yet... im useing the Witchdoctor sword.

Gaurds will pretty much never have higher then 70 crit (if they have something to help them more with crits let me know) and they sure as hell cant get thier dps/haste to soft cap as easy as us. So if you are not outparseing your gaurd by at least 1k then you are doing something wrong.

Now zerker tanking.
I have a macro set for tanking and a macro set for dps. When im in tanking mode my avoidance is gonna be about 10-12k and when im in dps mode my avoidance is around 6-8k (both ranges depending on gear tweaks for the encounter or stance changes).
I have yet to find any encounter in the game that i cant tank (we are currently on nexona in VP) but maybe there are mobs we havent got to yet that i need to try and tank. However so far if im needed to tank i can do it without a hitch.
Right now ive been tanking trash mobs while in offensive gear/stance (6-8k avoid) and my healers keep me up fine and im tanking AND doing top 3 DPS. When it comes to names we either switch to the gaurd tank or i switch to defensive and its pretty much the same thing. If you cannot hold agro with a proper raid setup then, again, you are doing something wrong.

Did we get shafted on our mythical? Sorta
Compared to everyone else? Sorta...
Compared to Guards? For sure...

What am i trying to get at is zerkers really arent as bad off as alot of the zerker community thinks.
Gaurds will always tank better then us and they damn well should. But the difference is we will always smoke them on parses and we will still be able to tank ALMOST as good as them... however they will never dps as good as us....

victer

I forgot to mention that there is one mayjor flaw to zerker tanking. And that is snap agro.
If the mob has some of a mem switch or blurr or wipe or if we get charmed then thats is the one area that really sucks for zerkers to get back up to the top of the hate list.
However the way we build agro with dps if the mob doesnt have any sort of mem reduceing ability then its pretty much cake to hold agro with just dpsing.

If the zerker needs anything its another hate possition modifier... im pretty sure we are the only tank with ONLY rescue for hate possitions... and everyone gets rescue

A hate possition modifyer that either goes up OR down would be awsome... with more emphasis on a skill that increses your possition. But yes i said it if it goes DOWN that wouldnt be so bad either.... how many times have you Turmoil/Jugger and then turn the mob off the MT when you dont want to? I know ive done it plenty of times =)

My idea of the skill?
Pretty much the same as rescue. but would looke like this


If you are on top of the hate list then
Decrease Hate Possition by 3
Redude hate by 2000
If you are not on top of the hate list then
Increase Hate possition by 3
increase hate by 2000

can be on a 10min timer (same as rescue)

Onedustinone

zerks can tank any mob in the game.
its whos playing the zerk and whos healing the zerk.
i think 50% of the people bitching about the class sucking have shitty healers, so thats why they bitch about wanting more survivability.

victer

more survivability? wtf?

pretty much the best tank buff for reduceing inc dmg in the game isnt enough? And the ability to cast it every 2 mins?

Zerker have some awsome dmg reducing abilitys and if you put AA's into our hunker line your doing even better! You can go pretty much the entire figth with ALWAYS a good temp buff on if you have the AA's in the right places...
youll always either have + 1000ish mit or 50% reduction

Onedustinone

i know this.
but 50% of the berserker community still bitches about this.

Burdy

Lol

victer

i had more thoughts on my way home from work...
i was thinking to myself what is it that makes the real dps difference?
the +30 hst/dps helps..... but the real deal is the +27crit for 30 secs every 2 min... this gives us the chance to max out crit which is impossible for a gaurd (if im wrong let me know)

the real time that we gotta start calling foul play and REALLY start complaining is if the devs give gaurds some sort of boost to crit. If they give gaurds the opertunity to max out crit we are fucked.

Mexule

I'll agree with yah that zerkers don't need as much help as people say. The fact that we still have a role (OT) is better than most tank classes (brawlers and SKs) whom really have to shine to be able to be given a chance to tank, otherwise they are just taken into to fill a dps spot or used for their raid wide buff. I think we only need a few tweaks, simple things like getting rid of berserk requirement for adrenaline to stay on, getting another snap aggro ability, maybe turn our health regen into a ward (that would be pretty sweet considering its raidwide imo), getting rid of the hate from health regen (unless it applies to raid-wide wards that they change), and maybe something to make OW still useful once ppl get their mythicals. The thing that you don't notice since you're on nexona is the difference in the mythical epic. Guard's get immunity to riposte which is not bad at all. I'm not a math geek so i can't go running ACT and give you all the numbers, but it's a nice bonus for sure.

victer

your right i cant say much till my whole raid gets thier mythicals and see the parses then but im pretty sure ill still be fine for dps.... but then again the Gaurds gets a HUGE upgrade to tanking and i get a minor if any at all to dps.
So ya zerkers in a mythical'd out raid force is overall weaker then a zerk in a raid force with out them.

And thanks for mentioning the HP regen. They have to rework the whole mechanic of that thing. Any attempt they make to help that thing is just pointless(changing to a ward is asking way too much). The only thing they can do to it is change the tick time.
Right now its ticking every 6 seconds. Even a 600 point regen (double what i can do now) wont help if its ticking every 6 seconds. Change that to 3 seconds and then it MIGHT actaully help.

Lyger

see this is the problem i have, being able to self buff to near caps in almost every area. most guards even DPSing generally do not toss on as aggressive of gear as zerks do to make themselves useful so they will generally parse less. our guard surpasses me on a number of parses but he is also MT and has the proccing buffs that i don't but comparably we aren't that far apart on solo mob DPS.

yes our class isn't as bad off as some make it out to be once you get all the nice gear and close the gap again, at the start to mid RoK raiding it was clear that there was a huge gap in tanking ability and also that our DPS was not far off from guardians.

you can sugar coat it if you really want but guardians are still superior tanks and not too shabby at DPSing when they want to while we get what? a handful of shitty self buffs that all have negatives attached and are stuck with buckler for aggro control.

not huge disparities but well enough that the class is still relatively useless if not for our(semi useless now) group buffs.