chew on this

Lyger · 07-06-2008, 11:25 PM

Joined: Feb 9, 2006
Messages: 594
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You have a defined role which is tanking. I am well aware though that guardians are far beyond everyone else in tanking especially raids. I have said a few times recently though that we will not be making any changes in the short term. In the longer term there are some changes to enhance survivability of the non guardian fighters but nothing concrete that I can commit to or comment on. I would expect to see some of that in the fall though and perhaps some discussion at fan faire if the question is brought up.

Message edited by Aeralik on 07/06/2008 13

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well it sure was nice for the clarification but it sorely has put a bad taste in my mouth.

only reason i held out was in that small glimmer that even a few small changes would keep me going. of course i'm not quite done yet but soon because of one simple post i'm already planning the cancellation of my account.

i'm not pointing the finger of blame at Aeralik as i don't know the circumstances but i certainly am not pleased to find out there is 1 superior tank and that is the way it will continue to be to make class balancing easier.

i'm not gonna sit on my thumb for another fucking year and a half in the "hope" that maybe the zerk class with be more versatile in it's role.

grandmasterub · 07-07-2008, 02:00 PM

wow. how pathetic is that. you know that one class has edged out all the rest but refuse to do anything about it.

i suppose its understandable though. its not like there are that many zerkers left to cancel their accounts

KFizzle · 07-07-2008, 02:29 PM

Look i'm an ex-Zerker main, who plays another class now but still has his zerker (who should have his myth this weekend hopefully :-) ... if i even should be happy about that mythical ... ).

I don't care if they are the preferred MT for raids. Hell thats fine, thats their role.

WTF Is the role of Zerkers??!? If we are to be desired as OT's we need something that sets us apart, something that makes us 'better.'
With guardians able to do dps almost the same level of zerkers or BETTER (Doesnt their myth allow them to get the 60% DA for instance, while dual wielding? I could be wrong though), we have no 'set role.'

All i'd suguest is slightly lower Guardian DPS (Shut up before i smack you guys if you cry about that, i see guardians throwing up 4k parses now), increase zerker DPS and either increase our snap agro or when you bump our DPS do it alot and make us chain tanks. Or give us some kind of reasonable two handed weapon thing that hurts our survivability but greatly increases dps.

We just need defined roles and we will be fine. The AOE Tank? I think there are like hardly any T8 encounters with multiple true heroic mobs that need to be tanked by one tank. And add to that, the fact that Guardians can do decent AOE DPS now with the extra AA lines and their AoE hate isn't so bad, with far better snap agro tools should an add come loose. So unless they change a lot of content, they need to change us.

Frogweiser · 07-07-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFizzle

With guardians able to do dps almost the same level of zerkers or BETTER (Doesnt their myth allow them to get the 60% DA for instance, while dual wielding? I could be wrong though), we have no 'set role.'

You are wrong.

Jeeden · 07-07-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogweiser

You are wrong.

Owned.

Lizerd Keng · 07-07-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyger

well it sure was nice for the clarification but it sorely has put a bad taste in my mouth.

only reason i held out was in that small glimmer that even a few small changes would keep me going. of course i'm not quite done yet but soon because of one simple post i'm already planning the cancellation of my account.

i'm not pointing the finger of blame at Aeralik as i don't know the circumstances but i certainly am not pleased to find out there is 1 superior tank and that is the way it will continue to be to make class balancing easier.

i'm not gonna sit on my thumb for another fucking year and a half in the "hope" that maybe the zerk class with be more versatile in it's role.

Wow, such a huge surprise....

For real though - since EoF (how long ago was that?) guardians got the much better AA tree and very useful things on their class set gear, while zerkers got hp regen. Only time zerkers were equal imo was KoS and KoS only (and even that can be argued).

Tanking the toughest stuff in game, why would anyone not want the most defensive tank. Sure, maybe with the best gear and a great raid force, a zerker can do it, but its still just easier with the defensive tank (aka guard) vs the offensive tank (aka zerker). MT'ing the toughest stuff requires you to take the biggest beating and hold aggro. Doing a little more dps comes secondary. If you ever think that tanking the tough stuff will be equal between the defensive tank and the offensive ones, then you're wrong and ya, I guess you might be sitting on your thumb.

Lizerd Keng · 07-07-2008, 04:07 PM

The guy said he could be wrong, so it's hardly being 'owned'. You just owned yourself.

KFizzle · 07-07-2008, 04:10 PM

... still doesnt change that Guardians are putting up comparable numbers. True i didnt know that it didnt work without a shield, but it DOES work with the protection of a tower (or so i was told), and the myth gives more protection/absorbtion than the zerk one.

KFizzle · 07-07-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizerd Keng

The guy said he could be wrong, so it's hardly being 'owned'. You just owned yourself.

I love Lizerd ... no homo.

Lizerd Keng · 07-07-2008, 04:20 PM

not really, guards is being changed so that when the proc is up, its 5% less damage. Zerkers is 5% and up all the time. Both give 5% shield effectiveness.
Zerkers have the single best defensive ability in the game with adrenaline. Guards simply have more avoidance because they can use tower and still hold aggro easily, with or without mythical.

idk, ...aeralik said that guardians are FAR beyond everyone else, and I wouldn't totally agree with this. Ahead, yea, and they should be. But they aren't THAT far.

Guards are really only ahead a little bit, and most of this is because of the mythical. What's gonna happen in a few months when everyone is getting better weapons than the mythicals? Guards will have to continue using thier outdated weapon in order to use tower + sta line while everyone else is getting an upgrade. Zerkers will still have adrenaline.

I love Kfizzle....yes homo.

Also - I really don't see them giving the zerkers more dps. They are doing a little more than the guards already. If they gave them some ability to do alot more dps while using a 2h or something (as suggested above) this will unbalance a few other 'true' dps classes. Then the zerker can just swap to a shield and tank? Tell me what true dps class can simply throw up a shield and tank as well as a zerker. Realize that most classes don't have a single defined role and most times their main role can be done better by another class. Raiding is about having a couple each of the current overpowered classes and a mix of everything else. Many times the "best" class for any particular role needs support from another class(es). Never should the best OT, near best MT, be able to simply swap a piece of gear, or even change AA's to be sooo much better one way or the other, or you'll have more unbalance than we have now.