Judist

Sorry but thats a buncha BS. Thats like arguing that assassins are OP because bards cant parse 9k. Guardians were designed to be the BEST at absorbing damage, and we do so with our utilities. Thats our role.

That leaves DPS as the unbalancing factor.

Don't blame reinforcement, this isn't T6. The Berserkers lack of snap aggro this expansion is a design flaw.

FFS, give Zerkers a "legit" snap aggro tool plus ToS and your instantly the superior tank in EVERY facet due to adrenaline. Thats how close you are to being better than every tank in game... 2 additional CA's...

Mythical imbalances aside of course...

Lyger

zerks doing even 15-18% more than guards in the same position i think is skewed. were you both wearing equal gear and had equal stats unbuffed? the reason i say this is because if you currently are doing 15-18% more dps than your guard in the same position, he still has 10% or so room for improvement.

we are stuck at stat caps, guardians don't have our self buffs so they have a lower starting point, which can be made up through gear or group buffs. if you look at the basics, our weapons aren't so different damage stat wise, so our auto attacks should be doing similar output. if you look at our CAs, guardians are superior, countering our addition weapon damage/proc. if you look at basic stats, we are both limited by the same modifications but more than likely your guard could still improve via stacking a group to suit what he lacks or via gear to max everything out. if you look at the overall picture, we both have almost exactly the same potential except we have 2 CA modifications buffs which last about 40 seconds or so every 1-2.5 minutes.

i hate to say it, but nerfing guards is the only way to balance tanks properly. we all know it, even the guards. of course i hate to say that though, and honestly there is no real way to nerf them anyways so you are safe.

as your healers get even better and better, even a fucking guard won't have to worry about wearing chain or leather and using harbinger of malcontent to main tank with, resulting in a fucking guardian doing almost exactly the same fucking dps as a berserker, while we won't be able to take the hits nearly as well.

tell me i'm wrong?

Judist

/Headdesk.

Like I said earlier, this expansion made Da/Crit/Dps/Haste easy to cap. Both warrior classes are going to have near identical parsing regardless of their starting point differences. Why? Those starting points mean jack & shit wearing end-game gear.

The concept is so simple I fail to understand why end game players haven't grasped it yet. When auto attack DPS becomes severely inflated and mods can be capped, it eliminates ALL of the edge that personal buffs/ca damage/temp buffs have between classes.

What is gonna make you guys happy? How about we change the guards cap amount so we can only max @ 50% in crits/da/dps/haste mods? Better yet! Remove guards from the warrior tree completely so you can hug the STA line w/o competition?

Fuck that.

guapo1

You are a moron.Find me one guard that would not say we need dps to hold agro.Assasins doing 11-13 k parses, wizards parseing high as well.Right now if we did not have the boost in dps we are putting out we would not be holding agro at all.

Plz let me hear it again how our tuants are so fucking great when they resist a fucking lot of the time.Play a guardian right now, or shut up really.

The amount of hate our tuants generate is no where near the amount of dps outher classes put out so to hold we have to combine dps with our tuants . We are also very fucking dependent on outher classes to hold agro.That being why guards always want a dirge / coercer useually in group set ups, and outher tanks do not .


Shandreya is correct you do not need more dps nor survivability. You need a snap agro tool.Guardian dps could be lowered but if soe does that they better raise our tuants hate gain, and lower the resistability of them.

Endoplasmic

So angry. I've played both, and I can DPS almost as well on the guard as I can on the zerk. What I couldn't do on my zerk is get stunned, cast reflexes go take a piss and come back and still have the mob. Guards can.

I parse anywhere from 1000 - 2000 more than the guard in the guild and he can hold agro just fine in full defense. If I had the same parse, same group and same gear... Holy fuckballs that mob would be all over the map.

So yah, guards don't require the DPS to hold agro nearly as much as we RELY on it.

Steev

You do realize most, if not all of us endgame zerks.. have played our counterpart on raids at least a few times.

DPS is a nice bonus for guards.. but while you need it to hold aggro.. you don't need 4500+ to do so. half the time you don't even need 3k. I'm sorry but with all the tools the guardian has, if you can't hold aggro without that high of dps... then maybe easybutton guardian isn't the class for you.

But.. don't get me wrong.. if they were to nerf dps of guards(which I think should happen).. I have no qualms with them dramatically increasing your taunts so that taunting is a viable way to hold aggro again.

Oh side note: Name ONE MT that turns down a dirge/coercer combo for group setups. Its not because guards are so reliant on these classes that they get put here.. its because its just the best combo for a MT of any class.

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Steev

hah Endo we were typing at the same time there... I agree 100% with your post.

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Ower

in full defense still means that we have our mythical... the buckler line with towershield you know? If Guards dident put out the dps they do they cant hold aggro... So guards dont need a nerf. They need a change if anything... Better taunts and shit so they can hold aggro that way. The way a Defensiv tank should do... Dont give me anymore bullshit that guards can hold aggro with out dps... Its simply not true...

Lyger

aww look, the guards are filtering in now to protect their precious dps... like i fucking said, sony can't nerf it anyways without a complete tank attack revamp so quit your bullshitting. you know you got everything, don't act like you don't know what this is about.

Judist

Yet it only took you 3-4 posts to realize you cant just nerf guard DPS due to weapon mechanics. Who doesn't know what its about?

Once you get your snap aggro tool (the PoS tool you defended as "all a zerker needs") all you'll be missing is an "Oh Shit" button to hit when in the red.

a) Snap aggro < Reinforcement (but you claim its plenty)
b) Aderneline > Sphere
c) Better DPS
d) Superior AOE dps/aggro

Get it yet? Guards will never beat a zerker in DPS, but Zerkers are 1 skill away (Tower of Stone) from beating every tank at EVERYTHING (sans mythical imbalances).

The only competition would be a Paladin w/ amends on a superior warlock for AOE aggro. But thats a class dependant skill and no one wants a warlock in the MT group. Especially the warlock.

QQ more about your class tho...