Karsgaar

The argument about who tanks better in defensive is somewhat moot at the moment. I never go into defensive these days. Last night, for example full MT raid buffed I was able to get up well over 75% avoidance in Offensive with temp buffs and procs and about 72-73 standing. The mit difference between the two is maybe 1%. I might go defensive if on the pull or if my health goes red AFTER hitting Adrenaline, but in general there's little reason to go defensive right now, at least with my level of gear/buffs. It should be pointed out though, that our stances do NOT effect our uncontested avoidance. If they did it might be another story.

My point is, I lose very little by going Offensive and gain my offensive proc, which amounts to a substantial amount of DPS, and thus, hate. I gain little to nothing by going defensive.

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Vormav

Even that, going in def with a warden + dirge and you go near the 520... Guards only have +25 crush/slash/piece than us, and we can get it too from 2 set in TsO (but that is NOT needed to be near cap.)

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The word "berserker" today applies to anyone who fights with reckless abandon and disregard to even his own life

[Storms] REVELATION Guilde Raid Quebecoise !
RECRUTEMENT OUVERT ! Cleric/Dirge
/tell storms.mortiss storms.brrit storms.vormav storms.knives

Ower

Zerks will win when they have all AA:s and some of the new gear. Stone sphere procs 2-4 times max... AD Is the big winner for zerks imo.. Guards have more hp tho... but.. moste of the guard skills < AD

And epitaphe ToS do not work on AoE:s (never done that for me anyway...)

Vormav

Stone sphere procs 5 stoneskin.

__________________
The word "berserker" today applies to anyone who fights with reckless abandon and disregard to even his own life

[Storms] REVELATION Guilde Raid Quebecoise !
RECRUTEMENT OUVERT ! Cleric/Dirge
/tell storms.mortiss storms.brrit storms.vormav storms.knives

Ower

It procs 6 at max. all tho i have ever got it to proc more than 4 times on a singeltarget mob.

Lyger

even at the end of the road zerks are still not better defensive tanks than guardians if you average everything out, yea we can take a beating with adrenaline up but overall they still have better tools, even their immunity affect on their weapon that they all cried like babies about helps them survive a bit better.

of course we shouldn't have better survivability than them either, we already have our specialty areas. i just get tired of all the BS arguments people start, sometimes i feel i'm the only sane fucker who plays this game still when i see people pull shit out of their ass in their comparisons.

"like ZOMG! but you have an ability that you can eat 50% of damage for 32 seconds!" when in reality it is: "like ZOMG! you have an ability that can eat 50% damage for up to 32 seconds! AND if you get hit by a power drain when you are in lost adrenaline you will be right around 0 power and might not be able to hit any of your oh shit buttons!" those are the sort of comparisons i see, pros of abilities without the cons in there for actual weight in the argument.

the class is doing well, we're close to guards as tanks and we still have the edge unfairly to them on AE dps/aggro which does still apply to single targets so we have nothing to complain about.

in stage 2 i am still a little worried though that things will get overlooked like our pure shit in the toilet attack skill, the buff on our set armor isn't going to fix that.

Ower

the both warriors are to close as it stands now. Guards will need a boost in some way. And lyger you if anyone should know how fucking uber AD is... now with hate on it aswell... And if not get a fucking coecer in your group and your power will be up again in what? 1 sec? stop trying to make the power as a big issue... Its not...

average everything out? Do that... i want to see what guards have over zerks that makes us a better def tank. All we have atm is some hp and agi on the def stance... and shit loads of half crapy omg buttons that the zerk buttons own. I now have my zerk at lvl 80 aswell... i cant clearly say that i feel there is much diff in surviveability atm.

I dont think zerks should be nerfed at all... I want guards to be over the edg in something to... What is the guard class now anyway? all our special fucking stuff the gave away to the other tanks... did we get any of their good stuff? no... If you dont think guards are fucked up right now you really should look over the class again... If it doesent work then... look again till you get it. Guards are broken.

Can we still tank everything? yes.. Can we still do the job? yes... But we still are broken.

Maciz

This is all fun, but most of this stuff only applies to mythical zerks and guards. I mean, when I was in a group a while back my AD was only as a last resort. If I used it, I ended up with 0 power after a while, and the assassin had NO problem getting agro because I couldn't push anything...

The highest raid I got to is ToK-S atm, and at that stage (with around 150-160AA points) the guard kicks my ass in surviveability IMO

Lyger

i'm an offtank, thus i get the less than perfect group, sometimes i am expected to manage aggro while I (myself) am the main group buffer with 0 (zero) hate in group or 0 utility (mystic/chanter) then i had to remove my macros(but that is a whole nother story...). but the point is moot because i just used it as an example to which you took a bit out of context since i really could care less about the guard vs zerker arguments at this point in time because i argued them until i got sick of the arguments while i was in beta(mainly from the guards who only used the pros from our abilities, wrote it on paper and called it zerk <zerk overpowering>).

damn right adrenaline is one of the best abilities in the game but i'm sure we've all used it and ran out of power a few times, a nuisance we deal with but it still is a factor.

Endoplasmic

I still wonder the % of guards that know how this spell really works. I think most of them think it's a 32 second 50% redcution castable when the shit hits the fan.

Just so the lurking guards know how it works it goes down a little something like this:

1) In order to CAST the spell you need to be berserk. (this proc goes up and down all the time while you fight, and unless you have the AA ability to go zerk anytime, you can't cast this on pull)

2) While Adrenaline is up you MUST BE BERSERK to receive the spells 50% damage reduction. You can probably count on this for ~10 secs. or so before it drops off and needs to be proced again. Now it can come back up if you hit berserk within the 32 secs. which is the good thing.

3) After Adrenaline drops off you start to loose power... a lot of power and you can't go into berserk mode for a little while (how long that is, I have no idea)

So yeah, that's the process of how that spell works, so if you are in a tight spot you gotta pray your zerkin'.

On the flipside, the new AA to give hate to that buff makes me Jizz In My Pants (make sure to watch in HD!).

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