Zerk being a tank

Zeddal · 12-08-2008, 03:05 AM

I have heard that zerkers can have more survivability as a MT than a guard, but I don't know why... Can anyone elaborate on what the new consensus is?

Culbay · 12-08-2008, 05:06 AM

No. No they do not.

Karsgaar · 12-08-2008, 10:40 AM

It's about equal these days once a Berserker has all the TSO AAs, but the Guardian still has a slight edge in survivability. It's certainly more equal then it was in RoK. The only defensive ability we have that beats a Guardian's defensive abilities is Adrenaline, and that drains a ton of power to use.

grandmasterub · 12-08-2008, 04:42 PM

if you had all your AA's and uber power regen so you could cast adrenaline with wanton abandon then perhaps we could be called more defensive (arguable). Guards have it way easier though.

Vormav · 12-08-2008, 10:01 PM

I'v been a Guard and a Zerk, and imho since TsO with the new AA I see more survivability tools in the Zerk class.

Gisallo · 12-09-2008, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vormav

I'v been a Guard and a Zerk, and imho since TsO with the new AA I see more survivability tools in the Zerk class.

I think this is more of a thing regarding the nature of the instances though. In AoE combat Adrenalin can be said to be better, 50% damage reduction for x amount of time can be better than "completely block damage from 3 attacks" when you are being attacked by 5 mobs at once true. But thats only in an "ideal" group when you have a mana feed and power regen. When not in ideal groups I only pop it when in serious trouble and when I am in a group that doesn't mind my "wait until I get power."

Other things come into play too. Who has an easier time tanking in defensive stance? That has a HUGE impact on surviveability. I haven't hit 200 AA's yet so am not sure as to whether we get enough of a hate/dps boost in the last Shadow branch to make tanking in defensive consistently doable. Until then I will say win Guardian. I think right now the guardian is genuinely better off surviveability wise than a zerk in... Single target encounters and as a raid MT. We I think are possibly better off in AoE encounters and make better OT's. You can argue all day long as to whether Guards are better off in single target as much as we are in AoE but thats an endless battle I have dropped from.

If you want to just be an instance tank in TsO roll a Zerk. If you have aspirations of being an MT I would say roll a guard. Remember though next year when they go back to RoK style instances you will probably be saying "guards have better surviveability in instances and MT" unless they completely fuck up fighter 2.0 so...

kascall · 12-09-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vormav

I'v been a Guard and a Zerk, and imho since TsO with the new AA I see more survivability tools in the Zerk class.

TBH i have to agree, i was a guardian all the way up till august and was raid MT for the guild till the end of EoF. Came back last spring and the old OT was now the new MT and they didnt need me to OT so i swapped to ranger as they needed dps. OT had RL blow up on him so i betrayed in august adn went zerker and never missed it. All in all i would never tank as a guardian again instead of a Zerker.

I rarely have used Defensive stance in instance or raid, and hell i DW tank 90% of the instance groups i run. As far as raids ive seen little to no benefit from defensive other then agro loss. We get hit just as hard and the avoidance gain seems to matter little if at all. So far in TSO raids i somehow tend to survive better then the MT guard if anything and i think its not only adrenaline but Hold Rage.

Just me but i think we are the stronger tank of the warriors now, not only do we hold our own on singles we destroy them on ae fights for agro control. Add in the 2 shot stoneskin and changes to Gut Roar while yer at it. Our 2 shot stoneskin OWNS ToS. It has to do more then 30% of our health meaning it doesnt get wasted like ToS usually did as a MT guard when i used it on INC for a hard fight. But thats just me /shrug

Epitaphe · 12-09-2008, 09:24 AM

>Our 2 shot stoneskin OWNS ToS.

ToS can block 3 of everything, be it AOE, nuke, melee etc etc doing more than 10% every 1min 30
Zerker 2 stone skin can only block 2 physical damage doing 30%+ every 2min 30.

"not going to waste" is not really a valid argument as the only time a guard use ToS is : on pull, when shit hits the fan or for massive AOE/nuke

Vormav · 12-09-2008, 10:41 AM

Well, we have an ability now to avoid damage like Tower of stone in our AA lines. And well, with a dirge + warden in MT group there is no problems with our slashing skills... (and yes warden is nice in g1, with their new crit mit buff and instinc).

We have the same group mit buff, same solo mit buff. We have an ability that give us nice avoidance for a good amount of time.

And then, there is Adrenaline. That ability seriously doesn't have that mutch bad sides in MT groops.. (Usually Mt group is Tank/3heals/dirge/coercer) with the ubbers echanter mythical the mana flow like it never had. And that great defensive spell doesn't have a long reuse timer.

Well, that being said, lets compare the guards/zerk on defensive skills.

ZERK:
-Adrenaline, 50% damage reduction O_O (The bad side was reduced, not draining mana like it was before.. Up ever 1 min 30 +- with Int proc (more with alacrity O_O) an last 32 second.. Thats THE ability :p)

-Hold Rage (Been changed to give +10 shield effectiveness and keeps the def/parry buff. No bad side if AA are ok.

-Wall of madness (like guards, solo mit up)

-Group mit buff

-We don't die on undying will, and we have another deadward witch help us not getting OS sometimes... Thats huge on some fights imho.

-AA to boost our shield effectivness even more

-Wall of force who is a ToS like spell.. but avoid 2 attacks

-Small heals proc and a small heal when under 30% health (AA should be placed there.)

-Always up on mythical 5% damage reduct

Did I forget something ?

Guards now.

-Tower of stone (protects against 3 attacks)

-Guard sphere (Guard takes damage that would go on team, and proc stoneskin)

-Raidwide +25 (or more ?) Defence.

-Solo mit buff (Like Zerk) AA can be placed here to boost shield effectivness when up.

-Group mit buff (Same here.)

-Group HP buff (Can be up to 1500 I tink with the set BP and AA, thats one of their nice buff imho and I miss it sometimes but well, I have adrenaline now xD)

-Dead ward, but the guards dies 45 sec +- after it expire... Its good on somes fights that don't takes forever and can save the raid, but its a "use wisely" spell.

-+20% dodge 20 sec recast 2-3 min with int. (Thats good too, but nothing compare to adrenaline)

-Proc on mythical 5% damage reduct and imune to all effects.

-Mythical: Imune to ripost (But hey, someone ever saw a riposte ? lets say its 2% damage reduct on SOME mobs :p)

Did I forget something ?

O_O O_O O_O

Maybe it's almost near in defensive skills, but for MT zerk is over guard in aggro stability. With mythical and new AA we have tons of snap aggro, WAY more ZE Aggro, 25% of inc damage = hate..

LordSaul · 12-09-2008, 10:47 AM

Group instances mostly It doesn't matter, as long as you have a dirge or troub.

When raiding I always have the mythical mystic in my group. Fill the mana bucket on demand and stab adrenaline all the time

. Once I have the hate increase on adrenaline it should be def stance ftw

My word are we power hungry these days.