lotharin

I posted this in the berserker forums of the sony forums but thought that I would add the link to it here and get your input for those that feel the need to flame. If you don't have anything positive to add, post here. If you have something constructive AND an alternative solution that isn't "quit complaining" or "you are fine, leave it alone," please post there.



Hello everyone,
While I enjoy input by other classes, lets try to keep this constructive and positive. If you don't have an alternative suggestion to provide and just want to type, "No way, no how," you are not welcome here. This is meant to be way for people to discuss options, not belittle others for suggesting options. This is just a discussion on the berserker class and solutions to it. While you can compare, we aren't looking for people to derail this thread with discussions on how other classes are perceived as being worse off.

So here we go. I thought that I would bring some ideas to the table regarding berserker aggro increasing suggestions. As well all know, the average berserker (tier 1 shard armor, fabled epic, etc.) have fallen behind the curve in relation to other plate tanks, specifically crusaders. With this in mind, I think that we need to look at what current abilities we have now and increasing their effectiveness to help close this gap. I am not advocating nerfs of any kind. I want adjustments made to our class to help fix the disparity between classes. While I am not claiming that this will be the end all fix to all the tank woes (bruisers could use some love as well), I believe that this would be a good start to getting things going in the right direction.

1) One of the biggest issues that we face is that the defensive stance is not viable in today's group. With the current dps that other classes are putting out, the -weapon skill effect on the defensive stance is killing our own dps, and therefore our ability to keep aggro. While this effects all tanks, it effects us more as we rely on our melee dps more than other classes as we do not have an aggro decreasing buff or an aggro transfer to help compensate. So lets do away with the skill decrease and exchange it with a decrease in our CA damage. Possibly 3 - 5% (depending on if its app, adept, or master). Before you discredit this idea claiming that it will destroy more of our aggro, please read on.

2) Berserk. Great ability but it could do so much more to help us with our aggro. Currently it increases our attack speed and DPS.
A) How about adding in a double attack component? At adept 3, the increase in attack speed and dps is 28 points. How about adding 75% of that in DA. So, 21% increase in DA. This will help increase our dps, and therefore increase our aggro.
B) Another possibility that I could see would be decreasing the reuse timer of our CAs by 15% while we are berserk. This will enable us to use our CAs faster while, in turn, will allow us to use our taunts more often.

3) Turmoil. How about adding an aggro component to this spell that gives 20% more aggro to the target encounter based on the damage amount. So if the spell does 450 - 850 dmg, it will also add 90 - 170 aggro per proc (it maxes out at 10 procs if you don't have the raid armor). Now remember, this adds aggro to the target encounter, not the target. This would help differentiate us from guardians and paladins as an AE tank.

4) Let's work on making CAs a viable option to working on building aggro.
A) Increase all CA base dmg by 50%. They do horrible damage as it stands. This will help increase our aggro.
B) Add 1000ish to our kick and primary slash CAs. For this to be effective, you would need to make it so that the hate went through even if you missed your CA (raid named suck for this).
C) If C isn't an option, due to us being AE tanks, add the hate to our Blue AEs and green stun. You would need to reduce all 3 to 1.5 seconds or less for this to be an option. Currently, our green encounter attack casts too slow to be effective. Its cast time is 2.5 seconds. If we are hasted to 1.8 sec delay, this will kill our aggro through auto attack. It needs to be decreased, same with our 2 blue AEs.

5) Rouse. Add a proc to it that reads as the following:
On any successful combat attack, this spell has a chance to cast Fury of War (lame name but whatever) on the caster's group. Lasts for 10 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.0 times per minute.
- Transfers 7.5% of the target's hate to the berserker.
The benefit of this spell is that it will be up to the DPS to recognize when this spell is on them to know that they can increase the DPS output they are generating.

Not all of these need to be implemented to help bring about a change. But I think that implementing a few will go a long way toward helping out the berserker class. Thoughts?

Balkolth

The class is fine if not op tbh.

1) You shouldn't have to use defensive stance in groups. Tell your healers to man up.

2) Adding a 21% DA proc to berserk is just asking too much. Furthermore, reuse really shouldn't be an issue. If you are properly timing auto attacks you won't be out of CA's often.

3) Put the 5 points into adrenaline in the TSO line + 100% AE attack from myth = the same thing. With the way aoe aggro works if you are losing aggro to a guard or pally its your fault. Zerker aoe aggro is insane.

4) I actually agree with you here somewhat. CA's should be boosted slightly but not nearly by 50%. And yes imo stunning bellow should be changed to match the delay of our 2 blue aoes.

5) No. 1) Not even quite sure what you mean here. 2) We don't need an additional hate xfer proc. At all.

Mezelline

Zerker dps needs to improve, however it is difficult to tinker with that without inevitably improving their aggro control, which is just where it should be right now imho.

A smaller change will do that job very well. Boosting Zerker CAs to damage levels comparable to Guardian cousins would do quite nicely. I always thought that it was ridiculous that guard CAs did more damage on a design level. The only reason zerkers have a small advantage over guards in dps is because of destruction, flurry, and the AE auto on mythical. Another good change would be increasing the reuse time reduction from 5 to 10% on the AA buff, to give zerkers a bit more desirability in a group/raid setting. Anything more would upset plate class balance imho.

__________________
Mezelardo - 80 Paladin 80 Shadowknight
Mezelast - Najena's first 80 Warlock
Mezelanka - 80 Troubador
Mezelina - 80 Berserker

Varuna

Balkolth, if you think the class is fine, you're retarded.

(Generalized reply starts here)

Now, as Balkolth stated...don't use defensive stance? Why would you even bother? If you're dying, kick your healer(s) and replace him/her/them. My undergeared Warden can solo heal everything but Palace and maybe Outer Stronghold for instances. Healing is NOT hard in groups.

Double attack on berserk? Why? It's extremely easy to cap out all of our offensive stats, even in a shitty group. DA is no exception.

AA's into Adrenaline, and AAs into the reuse on Open Wounds till you get your mythical.

Yes, Berserkers CAs are WAAAAAY too weak. it's pretty fucking stupid actually. However, aside from the poor damage, Stunning Bellow is fine. If acceleration strike is up, and you're dual wielding, you can cast it inbetween autoattacks no problem. The reason it's cast time is so long, is that it has no limit on targets. Find a huge encounter, and it will do a shit load of damage. We're supposed to be an "offensive tank". Where's the offense?

The 3 biggest problems with berserkers today are:

1. Weak ass combat arts

2. Piss-poor accuracy (unless buffed like crazy)

3. SoE can't decide if we're supposed to be a single-target style tank or AoE tank. Brawlers stomp us on single target fights, Shadowknights destroy us on AoE fights AND single target fights, and Paladins can keep up on with us on either. We're the retarded little brother of the Fighters. People take us along because if we get mad and go on a power-rangers-overdose-retard-rampage we can fuck some shit up, but that's about it.

__________________
My photography!

Lyger

a brawler should do more DPS on a single target fight, duh.

we have decent defensive tools now and are average AE tanks but i do hate having to make macros to send tells for adrenaline to the chanters.

Varuna

The problem isn't that a brawler can beat us on a single target fight. The problem is that not only can a brawler beat us on a single target fight, but crusaders keep to us if not destroy us on AoE fights. We're caught in the middle, and in the end it kind of gimps us.

Not only are fighters unbalanced, but Berserkers themselves are unbalanced.

__________________
My photography!

Onedustinone

sigh...
Berserkers got alot from tso, honestly.
The ONLY thing that we could use a slight upgrade on is our hit rates...

If you can AE tank, you can ST tank. If you cant you are doing something wrong.

If your getting your shit pushed in in groups/raids, get better healers or gear, and learn to use your temps better. You really shouldnt ever have to use defensive stance.

We are in NO way gimp tanks, just gimp players blaming the class for there skill.

Skel

I think its just moreso other plate tanks are easy mode while you actually have to work your ass off as a zerker. I can 100% say this is true as a guardian because i was one, and crusaders seem even easier.

__________________

kascall

Yep i was a guardian from the start of EQ2 through the early days of RoK before people we really raiding in rok yet. Ive got a decently geared SK alt as well and i can atest we work for our agro compaired to those two classes. If i could convince the dirge he should BC me instead of the assassin they always give me i could find something more useful in the ST group, trak shield makes it easy mode anyways though. If you dont have your mythical as a zerker you will say we are shit compaired to the other tank classes. If you have a clue and have your mythical the only thing u can really bitch about is our shitty CA dmg and our craptastical hit rate. Otherwise go cry elsewhere plz.

grandmasterub

agreed. Even some of the most ignorant twatwaffles can play a guard, pally, or sk and be effective. They all just get "I WIN" buttons. Zerks actually have to know wtf2do!