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Old 05-20-2007, 04:15 PM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

no change needs to be made to the STA aa for a 2 hander to be viable... there just needs to be a reason to actually slap on a 2 hander (aka AA's that require/benefit from it)
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:53 PM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

btw DR means nothing
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Old 05-21-2007, 07:26 AM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

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Originally Posted by Aralas View Post
btw DR means nothing
maybe it's not the most important stat for a weapon, but it surely means something :P
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:59 AM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

nope, it supposidly does but u can have a shitty weapon with a high dr and a diff weapon with same dr and one is obviously better
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:04 AM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

what aralas said. if you take the silvered sword from vyem it has a higher DR than vilu sword, yet you ll have better hate/dps with vilu Delay and gap betwee min/max dmg is what makes a weapon.
ascendant 1.6delay = PoS even if it has a higher DR than a few other weapons.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:54 AM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

DR, pre-KoS = Meant almost EVERYTHING.

Many forget the logic of old world itemization. The importance of DR hearkens back to the original content, where delays and spreads almost never differed, and thus were very simplistic and predictable. Admittedly, DRs didn't change much in the same tiers either outside of the Treasured/Legendary/Fabled tags (and there weren't even many Legendarys), but then DR was the true attraction of a nice weapon.

These days, variety and imagination has long set in. We have faster and slower delays, and damage spread ratios vastly vary now. Haste is more commonplace with everyone now, and the lack of ways to boost DPS mods are a thing of the past. Crit %s have long set in and often rule the top priority behind weapon choices. No longer are DRs all important. Nowadays, DR simply indicates a level of damage adjustment. Ratio and delay may be what we look at now, but without a DR to base itself on, they'd be 0.

Example: say a Dual Wield weapon. Forget the Delay, say it has a spread of 2-8. DR is 10.0 If DR was adjustted to 15, this spread would become 3-12. If tuned down to 5.0, the damage would become 1-4. Obviously, if there were 0.0 DR, you'd have no damage at all.

Superior weapons don't always have the highest DR, for these reasons. The reason GDoH attracted all the scouts was obviously for its never before seen massive spread and delay, both previously unthinkable on a DW. However, its DR was almost that of a high-end Legendary weapon, and rightfully so. If it had the DR of, say, Vyemm's Fang, its already incredible damage potential would be boosted to obvious overpowerment, an item too good for the likes of Lyceum and probably even stronger than the Soulfire Sabre.

Nissen and I often disagree on the issue of 2hs, but we're both old world Zerkers that would love to see 2hs get their long-deserved justice. Not since launch have they been properly represented. DoF only had a few fabled 2h to consider, and one of them stopped dropping at all rather early into the expansion (guess which). KoS showered us with them to make up for it as a cruel joke, having simultaneously set in motion the master plan to make them obsolete. And EoF.......well, they're not really here much at all, are they? Instead the gods cherish theirs and mock us, daring all to take it from them. Wuoshi drops a killer spear, and the new Mayong has that aggro beast, and of course there's Soulfire.......again, obsolete.

Tweaking 2h DR across the board is a way to make them more appealing, but I don't think it would be enough without risking unbalance. AAs are the key, I believe. The thing that makes Buckler line so great is the same thing that makes Rogue 1h line (almost a straight copy-pasta of Buckler AAs, really) and pre-nerfed Sorcerer empty offhand line so great - they have an entire AA line dedicated to boosting the same style. Rogues with empty offhands get a counter-attack proc, double attack %, and a base chance to Riposte/Parry. Bucklers get virtually the same thing. Sorcerers get a base damage increase of a single spell every minute, a small regenerating perma-ward, and an overall base damage increase of all spells.

So, if WIS line were to cater to 2hs, I don't think the DPS mod boost alone would be enough. Combining WIS line and 2h may be the only way to save both. The idea of a 2h is to sacrifice the protection of shields for pure DPS gain and therefore better aggro but ultimately now fails at both compared to alternatives. WIS line hasn't had much going for it for some time. Belly Smash is interesting, but since when do we pick Warriors for their debuffs? The DPS mod bonus is always nice but diminishing returns hurt its worth and besides, I can jack my DPS up to 105% on a regular basis (145% in occasional bursts), self buffed. And what's that Mit bonus gonna do for us now? Only the endline is really good but being forced to blow half a tree's points into crap first never helps and proper raid buffage makes it kinda obsolete anyways.

So, I'm with Nissen and Skel on this one. What are some ideas for transforming the WIS line into an overall 2h line? This would likely mean 2nd, 3rd and 4th skills would likely demand a 2h as a requirement. The endline, like others, should be a unique bonus free from the 2h requirement, or even just Stance Mastery as it is now. I'm open to any ideas, any opinions and critiques would be greatly appreciated.

Skel mentioned....

"I had something in mind like..."

"Frenzied Bliss: wards caster for 300 a tick"

Interesting......but maybe too unique? Sounds like a potential endline, or even the next Ancient Teaching, if anything. While I swim that idea in my head around for a bit, any other suggestions?
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:13 AM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

Frenzied bliss was mentioned as a replacement for our regen line. Still has a similar effect, but warding>regen. As for changes on our wis line...

wis 2: Pommel Bash: Deal xx damage and daze target for xx seconds (if 2 hander equiped)

wis 3: Commanding Shout: 30 second duration group buff that grants 1 trigger(for each person) for xx damage on a melee attack. Each rank increases damage and an aditional trigger is granted at rank 4 and 8. Recast 45 seconds


wis 4: Veteran's Expertise: increase crit chance, double attack, haste and DPS by 2 per rank (if 2 hander equiped)


wis 5: Whirlwind: Absorb the next 3 melee attacks and reflect them at 25% damage. Recast 4 minutes


Reason for my choices: Noting is ZOMG wtf overpowered. They all fit into being a wise fighter. The first skill is ok, but really it cant be super cool. Commanding shout reminds me of anarchy before we were nerfed, but not as powerful. Vet's expertise would give the added DPS needed for 2 handers plus it fits into being a wise and seasoned fighter. Whirlwind Gives you that chance that you need to get your shield equiped if your MT should go down.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:44 PM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

I don't really care what it is, as long as 2h does more damage than a 1h + buckler. And yes, having something that gave us a few seconds to hit defensive stance and a tower shield if we got aggro or MT went down, would be great.

It really sucks that an average EoF 1 hander + any buckler is greater than the best 2h in game. That's just retarded imo.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:39 PM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

Some very nice ideas on aa's there Skel. I would love to see a 2h tree. I used a 2h almost exclusively untill I had to aa's to go down the sta line and got a good weapon and buckler. I still miss the look of my big sword though .
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:48 PM  
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Default Re: Things that need to be changed in RoK

thanks... it would be cool to actually use my axe of war... but for now it just sits in my bag all dusty
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