Weapon Delay - Page 3

Orochan · 12-06-2007, 02:18 AM

Your missing the point, ugh. I swear we should sticky some post that has true accurate data in it, as to why slower weapons > faster weapons.

Note : Other mays have already said in this thread what I'm about to say.

First off, Slower weapons don't get in the way of Ca's and because of that they actually hit more then faster weapons do, and miss less.

If your weapon is swinging at .5 secs, and your cast/recovery if a CA takes 1 second then you are effectively missing every other auto attack, thus reducing your accuracy by 50% right off the bat, before any checks are made against a mobs avoidance.

With a 4 second weapon fully hasted ( also being DW'd ) it becomes a 2.4 sec delay weapon, which leaves a much wider and more flexible time to get off CA's then .5 seconds does.

Second, this whole relativity thing is bullshit and really needs to stop, YES of course ALL weapons get the same increase in haste , but we don't fucking mean that, what were talking about is BENEFIT, and 4 second weapons gets MUCH MORE benefit from haste then a 1 second delay weapon does. A simple example is this, 10% of 100 will always be more then 10% of 10. It's the same concept with DPS/haste mods. 50% of 4 seconds is 2 seconds chopped off, while 50% of 1 second is only .5 seconds chopped off, so the 4 second delay weapon gets 1.5 second MORE of a benefit then the 1second delay weapon.

So please stop saying they get the same benefit, because they don't.

Also don't come at me with that whole bullshit of faster weapons hit 5 times in the time it takes a slower weapon to hit once because that argument is flawed and doesn't take in the important factor that is the mobs HP.

A 4 second weapon one shots a mob while a 1 second weapon takes 4 hits to kill it. Which one does more dps? The 4 second one, this can be applied to raids as well. I just used an extreme example ( one shotting ) for convenience.

Third, slower weapons always have better min/max spreads and better high end damage then faster weapons, this is to offset for their slow delay, and as we all know the higher your max damage is, the more crit benefit you will get. This comes back to the 10% of 100 vs 10% of 10 thing, same concept here as well.

This is also why CRITS > all.

Those 3 things are really what makes slow weapons > faster weapons.
I could also have missed something seeing how it's 2:20 AM, so if I did o wells lol, the reasons I gave should be good enough. /shrug.

Diadem · 12-06-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diadem

Currently I am using a Lucanic Sabre (4.0) and a Blackheart Rapier (4.0). I am specced for Sailwind. So, after consulting /weapon I have a base delay of around 5.3, and i am looking at a CA every 0.8 seconds.

5.3 / 0.8 = 6.625, or six CAs between each auto attack *unbuffed

In my regular group I get some haste, bringing me up to around 4.1 delay

4.1 / 0.8 = 5.125, or five CAs between each auto attack

Is this right?

Can anyone confirm that I am doing this math right and I should be attempting this amount of CA's between hits?

Choadley · 12-07-2007, 10:31 AM

You're DWing...quit worrying about timing it. Spam your CAs and let the autoattacks fire off automatically. They go off right after any CA in progress when its time is up anyway. With delays from DWing 4 sec weapons, you're not going to lose much (if anything) over the course of most encounters. Just click, click, click.

Diadem · 12-07-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choadley

You're DWing...quit worrying about timing it. Spam your CAs and let the autoattacks fire off automatically. They go off right after any CA in progress when its time is up anyway. With delays from DWing 4 sec weapons, you're not going to lose much (if anything) over the course of most encounters. Just click, click, click.

Thanks, I have been spamming CAs the past few nights and seen some much better DPS. I appreciate the confirmation that this is the best approach for now.

I assume then that the weapon timing discussions are targeted at using a single weapon (with double attack spec). Is this because the weapon will be on a shorter delay and therefore be a bigger part of your overall DPS? Thus you want to ensure that you dont impeede its timing with CA spam?

I dont know if I have ever seen that statement made anywhere.

Souldreamer · 12-09-2007, 08:41 PM

Predators and Bards it makes a difference timing CA's because they have..
Long cast time CA's (Predators), long cast Spells (Bards), even with a high delay weapon if a ranger is spamming CA's they'll delay their auto attack by anything up to 3 seconds.

Auto attack on a bow.
200-800 min/max, 9 sec delay bow = 111.11 DR
Auto attack on bow delayed.
200-800 min/max, 9 sec delay bow which hase BEEN delayed by spamming CA's so 11 secs say = 90.9 DR

THIS is what the timing CA's discusion is about.

Brigands on the other hand are almost all 0.4 cast/recovery or 0.5 cast/recovery depending on AA spec. The only Exceptions to this are getting into stealth to use Rob and casting Barroom negotiation **.

All you'll do at the end of the day is delay your auto attack by 0.8 seconds and with long delay weapons, 4-6 seconds, that is pretty much jack all so the DPS lost spamming is less than the DPS lost if you try and time CA's, since you'll loose CA damage because your using less of them.

In closeing...
Spam those fucking CA's, mash buttons as fast as you can

, the order you choose to spam the CA's in WILL make a difference to your DPS though

**If you put 5 points into enhance Barroom Neg, it's the same reuse as our frontal attack (forgot name

) to save wasted DPS/time I ALWAYS use Barroom Neg as I'm Jumping over the mob to use the frontal attack.

Orochan · 12-10-2007, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souldreamer

Predators and Bards it makes a difference timing CA's because they have..
Long cast time CA's (Predators), long cast Spells (Bards), even with a high delay weapon if a ranger is spamming CA's they'll delay their auto attack by anything up to 3 seconds.

Auto attack on a bow.
200-800 min/max, 9 sec delay bow = 111.11 DR
Auto attack on bow delayed.
200-800 min/max, 9 sec delay bow which hase BEEN delayed by spamming CA's so 11 secs say = 90.9 DR

THIS is what the timing CA's discusion is about.

Brigands on the other hand are almost all 0.4 cast/recovery or 0.5 cast/recovery depending on AA spec. The only Exceptions to this are getting into stealth to use Rob and casting Barroom negotiation **.

All you'll do at the end of the day is delay your auto attack by 0.8 seconds and with long delay weapons, 4-6 seconds, that is pretty much jack all so the DPS lost spamming is less than the DPS lost if you try and time CA's, since you'll loose CA damage because your using less of them.

In closeing...
Spam those fucking CA's, mash buttons as fast as you can

, the order you choose to spam the CA's in WILL make a difference to your DPS though

**If you put 5 points into enhance Barroom Neg, it's the same reuse as our frontal attack (forgot name

) to save wasted DPS/time I ALWAYS use Barroom Neg as I'm Jumping over the mob to use the frontal attack.

Except that predators ( specifically assassins ) are the fastest casting and recovering scouts now.

If they go down the agi line ( which most are doing now ) they cast something at like .30 and recover @ .25, which beats sailwind pretty easily.

So your whole idea is really off base I'm sorry to say, at least as far as assassins go.

And longer weapon delay = easier to time CA's with, not the other way around.

The only major problem with long delay weapons is you depend on accuracy a shit ton more. If your dishing out 100 hits who cares if u miss 15 of them, h/e if you can only dish out 10 and you miss 7, then ur fucked DPS wise. And seeing how accuracy is really a non issue for most scouts, there really is no drawback to using slow weapons anymore.

Johnathon · 12-10-2007, 08:52 AM

accuracy is relative regardless of weapon speed.

You will hit the same % if your skill is the same between weapons and all variables are the same.

SO, a slow weapon will not miss as much as a fast weapon (% wise they will miss AROUND the same)

Gesari · 12-10-2007, 11:15 AM

I don't think he's contesting that, John. He's merely pointing out, if you have a 26 second trash fight or whatnot it fucks you over on dps more to miss an attack with a slow weapon than it does with a fast weapon.

Johnathon · 12-10-2007, 11:43 AM

I can agree with that statement. I just read it wrong obviously and wanted to ensure that others knew the proper dynamics =)

Diadem · 12-10-2007, 01:36 PM

Awesome information, thanks guys.

My DPS is has been way up since I have been focusing more on "spamming", but on longer fights I really try to time my big attacks with dispatched. Cracked the top 5 in the raid pretty consistently, and I am still only lvl 78.