Loaf

Is it better for a Brig to use a weapon with a long delay (2-3s), or very short delay (1.3-1.9s)?

I am leveling a brigand (42 at the moment) and have gone down the str line and currently heading down the agi line. I normally group with a SK and warden friend, so I have only self buffed haste at the moment. Thanks in advance for the help!

skytter

Slower weapons hit harder and with good haste will make you do more dmg they also have a better chance to proc.

Loaf

so the slower the weapon the better? Is that the general rule of thumb regardless of spec? It seems like a slow weapon would be good for the wisdom line double attack, but fast dual wield weapons wont yield the same DPS out?

Gesari

I would say as a rule of thumb, slower weapons are usually better.

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Kicks

Fast weapons will not benefit from haste as slower ones do.
furthermore the dmg spread of fast weapons is very small so that slow delay weapons benefit much more of a critical hit

Choadley

At lower levels, Loaf, it's not going to mean much to you. You're not going to be raid buffed or maxing out haste in most groupings. The faster weapons and slower weapons really set themselves apart when you're fully leveled and raiding. At your current level, you can go either way. Once you level up and have a better choice of weapons, longer delays will matter more for taking advantage of buffs, crits, and high end ratios.

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mandark1967

Let me preface this by stating I am just now trying to get a grasp on the delay benefits and I'm explaining this as I understand it. please don't ream me too hard if I am grossly off base:

Examples
A -- 2 dual wield weapons with low delay may have a damage rating of 50 each so together they would equal DR100 (d'uh)
B -- 2 one hand weapons with higher delay may have a damage rating of (for example) 55 each so together they would equal 110

In order to balance out the DR differences above, a delay was implemented when equipping an off-hand weapon so the damage would even out between A and B above. (this is not exact, and the devs stated that there would be a "bit" of in increase in damage when using option B, but they felt it wouldn't be an unfair advantage or result in such a large disparity that it would need to be nerfed at a later date.
If you are using a pair of weapons with 1.6 sec delay...

You basically hit the mob every 1.6 sec. Since your procs are based on weapon delays you tend to hit the mob more often, but proc a little bit less often than if using slower weapons (because you have a lower delay).

Now let's say you have 2 weapons and each has a 4sec delay...You hit the mob less often but you proc a bit more often since you have a longer delay.

Here's where the slower weapon helps your DPS...

You are in autoattack with your dual wield weapons and swing your primary 1.6 weapon, and then cast a 2.5 second CA or Spell (dirges have spells too so I use them as an example)

You just lost out on the opportunity to land autoattack hits by casting your spell/CA. This hurts your DPS.

Now assume you are using two primary weapons with a 4 sec delay weapon +33% penalty...

You swing then cast a 2.5 sec CA/spell, then hit the mob with your off-hand, and cast another CA/Spell, then swing again...

You are able to "fit" your CA's/Spells in between your autoattacks which can increase your DPS quite a bit.

firamas

high delay weapons do not "benefit more from haste" than low delay weapons do... haste affects everything the same. 125 haste equals 100 "real" haste, with the cap being 200 haste equalling 125 "real" haste. there are a few issues affecting weapon delay, as follows:

delay cap: the debate over a delay cap has been going on for awhile, but the general consensus is that there is NO cap. and even if there is, there is only 1 EoF weapon that would hit it (Hopeshredder).

CA timing: you want weapons that will bring you as close to a 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 hasted delay, this is for CA spamming. and note that if you specced for sailwind you need a multiple of 0.8 instead.

top end dmg / dmg spread: the slower EoF weapons are the ones that tend to have the higher top end damage and higher dmg spreads, to take advantage of high crit %'s. however, unless you have an incredibly high crit % this isn't very much of an issue.

procs: the only benefit to using ultra-fast weapons is that a dirge's caco will go off more for you. that's it. any other buff, armor proc, or poison that has a % chance to go off is normalized, therefore your # of procs per minute will remain the same independent of which weapons you are using.

bottom line: if you aren't raiding and consistently getting the right classes in group with you this whole issue is pretty much irrelevant, use the best DR weapons you can find with the biggest dmg spread and you'll be just fine.

Souldreamer

High delay weapons DO benefit more from haste because you interupt their swing pattern less when casting CA's especially if you time between swings.

0.5sec cast and 0.5 sec recovery = 1 second.

With a 1 sec delay weapon 100% hasted it will be at 0.5 sec delay. 2 second delay weapon will be at exactly 1 second.

It's a 100% speed increase, not delay increase, so if you increase the speed of the weapon by 100% you half it's delay.

If you spam CA's with the 1second hasted weapon it will still only be able to attack every 1 second instead of 0.5. With the 2 second delay weapon it will hit every second even if your spamming.


The DR rating is based off no crits and no interuptions so the less you can interupt it's swing pattern the better. As a rule the longer delay weapons also have a nicer spread, low min and high max.

When you crit the hit you would have done gets +30%, if that hit is below the maximum damage of the weapon it hits for Max +1, if above then it's whatever you hit for.

1 min, 149 max, delay 2 seconds = 75 DR.
50min, 100 max, delay 2 seconds = 75 DR.

When the weapons crit the 1/149 will hit for a minimum of 150, while the 50/100 will hit for 101.

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firamas

yes, i mentioned all of that in my last post... you just have to use a bit of logic and piece it all together =)

and btw, since the majority of raiding rogues are specced for sailwind/dual wield these days, that means that you'd need to be using something under a 1.2 delay weapon (i.e becomes a 1.6 delay after the 33% swing penalty) in order for your 100% hasted delay to fall under the 0.8 seconds of sailwind. there aren't many (uh, any?) weapons worth using under 1.2 delay. that argument is moot.