Opinions: WIS line w/ mythical for raiding? (If you can't get an illy?) - Page 2

Johnathon · 05-05-2008, 08:13 AM

Become's Gear

In case you were curious like myself.

I've been doing wis for a while MY GEAR.

I'm still looking to fill a few holes and haven't figured out if the +18 skills (fencer title) will help me achieve better parses and if i should drop swipe to test it out.

Tiermes · 05-05-2008, 09:18 AM

drop the swipe, fuck the raid leader!

firamas · 05-05-2008, 12:04 PM

lol, yeah. i hate swipe, but i think the guild would hate me more if i dropped that spec.

and from any testing i can see, adding weaponskills does almost nothing. you can go from 500 to almost 600 and see no appreciable gain in hit rate against orange con raid mobs.

Helspeth · 05-06-2008, 06:28 PM

.......... Swipe isn't only a debuff, it's a DMG attack, +18 to offensive skills means shit.

firamas · 05-07-2008, 01:45 AM

and just what % of your ZW is swipe? =)

now granted its effect is invaluable and you'd be foolish to drop it under most circumstances, but it's low dmg AND probably our worst hit rate CA too. it's not going to impress anyone on a ZW. its there for the effect, not the deeps.

Johnathon · 05-07-2008, 08:10 AM

Switched back to DW and was in a group without an illy and parsed a lot better.

Was DW with Mythical epic and Soulfire.

Of course some of the group mates are unavailable to you such as Templar and Mystic, but the Dirge helped a lot too ;)

I Honestly don't know what to tell you. =(

I've found that rearranging my double up to be at the beginning of my rotation has helped my dps more than anything else. (and getting jcapped often isn't too bad either)

Flayedskin · 05-07-2008, 09:12 AM

According to the information I will use the following analysis

107 base DA with WIS line

39 base DA without WIS line (39 is pretty low it can be higher easier but we will assume the same gear selection)

I will assume you also (for simplicity purposes) have a 100% real haste modifier. Actual weapon damage doesn't mean a lot since it would just increase the appropriate damage modifiers...however melee crits would impact the final results (but not that signifigantly). I am assuming a 40% real melee crit % for testing purposes versus a lvl 86 mob. We'll also assume a real hit % of 60% versus the mobs for miss purposes. I will assume DA does not curve versus orange con mobs. I will also not factor in extra stats from the off-hand weapon, but will factor in melee crit and proc damage.

The weapons...

Mythical
73 - 411
median base hit 242
median crit hit 473

Throatripper (3% melee crit and assuming a 450 damage proc 1.8 times a minute)
81 - 322
median base hit 201.5
median crit hit 370

Using wisdom line
With the haste modifier the mythical should hit 30 X a minute. Of the 60 (factoring in DA) swings 36 will hit the monster. Of the 36 hits 15 will crit.

15 X 473 = 7095 base damage (crit)
21 X 242 = 5082 base damage (non-crit)

This gives a total of 12177 base damage a minute and assumes you land every autoattack at 2 second time intervals.

Not using wisdom line
With a haste modifier the weapons should hit a 22.5 times a minute. Of the 31.275 swings a minute (per weapon 8.775 is the number of double attacks), 18.765 will hit the monster. Of the 18.765 hits, 8.06 will crit.

8.06 X 473 = 3812.38
8.06 X 370 = 2982.2
10.705 X 242 = 2590.61
10.705 X 201.5 = 2157.06

Proc should hit for 810 damage every minute

This gives a total of (on average) 11542.25 damage a minute and assumes you land every autoattack at 2.65 second intervals. If you add the additional damage proc of 810 damage a minute (assuming it procs 1.8 times a minute) the total base damage is 12352.25 base damage a minute.

A couple of considerations.

1) This base damage does not factor in added stats from the dw weapon.

2) This is using a single DA factor of only 39 which if in a bard/illy group with Illusionary arm will be much higher (those 2 buffs give 35 DA combined). You can also self buff yourself via pots and consumables to 45 DA before gear is factored in.

Figuring it at 50 DA for DW (pretty easy to get)

22.5 + 11.25 swings = 33.75 swings per minute. Of the 33.75 swings, 20.25 will hit. Of the 20.25 hits, 8.708 will crit. This equals 7340.844 total crit damage and 5118.877 non-crit damage for a total melee damage of 12459.72 + 810 damage from proc for a total base damage of 13269.72 damage a minute.

Now this configuration doesn't factor in any melee crit loss you might have going to 50 DA...so it might be a wash.

3) You will miss more autoattacks in the WIS spec under this example then DW because of the 2 second delay (double up anyone?). Without any doubt this should definitely tip the favor towards a DW configuration. Also more haste in the DW configuration will only help you where more haste in the Wisdom config (beyond 100% real haste) will make you miss more autoattacks and probably hurt your dps numbers overall.

4) This does not factor in the lunge reversal damage

firamas · 05-07-2008, 11:25 AM

I stated first thing in this thread that I don't have access to Qeynos classes, so 10% from bards is my only source of external DA. Hence why the sacrifice of so much gear to pump my self-DA is not appealing to me.

And you should know better than to try to solve this with simple math. That's not how the combat forumlas work. That's not how it's actually going to work itself out in game. There's a few dozen small factors that are constantly adjusting. Many combat related stats do not react on a linear curve. Simple calculations can give you an approximation, but that's it.

Flayedskin · 05-07-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

I stated first thing in this thread that I don't have access to Qeynos classes, so 10% from bards is my only source of external DA. Hence why the sacrifice of so much gear to pump my self-DA is not appealing to me.

And you should know better than to try to solve this with simple math. That's not how the combat forumlas work. That's not how it's actually going to work itself out in game. There's a few dozen small factors that are constantly adjusting. Many combat related stats do not react on a linear curve. Simple calculations can give you an approximation, but that's it.

Base damage is base damage. Base damage output is NEVER modified by a curve. Where the hell did you come up with that nonsense. I did not factor in stuff like increases in DPS mod, or dps mod effects because they would ALL affect the END damage results modified off of the BASE damage.

Math is very easy to use in this situation. I assumed only four things really in my equation I used. 1) that DA does not scale, 2) The players equipment did not change (hence the horrendous 39 DA) 3) The weapon proced the specified amount in its description, 4) A weapon when it crits does max damage +1 to Max damage +30%. Outside factors such as DPS Mods, Haste Mods have no huge impact...and the scenario I listed is quite easy to do and get as a brigand.

The only other factor not included in this formula is the base increase melee crits give to your CA shots.

Lastly the only factors that would very much during the raid is temporary increases to haste/dps mods depending on what group setup you are in. Haste and DPS mods are a mute point because they would increase the damage output of the 1H WIS setup and DW configurations the same amount. Int only really affects poison damage and a few gear procs. Strength should be near your max in a raid, so that is the ONLY other thing that would impact your autoattack damage.

Choadley · 05-07-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

and just what % of your ZW is swipe? =)

now granted its effect is invaluable and you'd be foolish to drop it under most circumstances, but it's low dmg AND probably our worst hit rate CA too. it's not going to impress anyone on a ZW. its there for the effect, not the deeps.

1% from Swipe is 1% more then +18 to skills gives.