Wiz

I'm raiding tonight, I'll monitor and record my exact stats per parse and pass on data late tonight/tomorrow

Shenanigans!!!!! AYE LADDY!!! (shoot me an offer :P)

Redsteel

yep i totaly agree with efour with this one and who ever else says it whats the point with phanthom or vampiric when u can get some extra dps with the poison adorns etc

ldog

Ok, as best as I can figure a vamp handles is good for about 15 dps plus the healing.
I'm still trying to figure out how much dps comes from 2% spell crit but it's a complicated thing.
Per in-game discussion with Wiz, the more procs and clickys you have the more benefit you get out of spellcrit. For anyone with the right gear and the right group members it definitly has more value than the vamp handles.

On the low end...pretty hard to find the break even point for something with so many variables.

Ofifi

I did some parsing and some very quick, dirty math so not sure how accurate this would be and I am too poor to buy 2 +2 spell crit adorns, but...

with just autoattack on training dummies,

my vampiric handles did a massive 23dps

while other spell dmg was 215dps
most of my procs (which is like only 4) have a close enough dmg spread that 1.3*min dmg >max dmg so I just took 215*1.3=280

So if I critted on 100% of procs, I would gain 65 dps. So with 4% crit i end up with 65*.4 or 2.6dps.

Now my math may be grievously wrong, but if it is right, i would need 35% spell crit before I even break open with my gear right now. In other words to equal 23 dps in spell crit dmg, i would need to gain 575 dmg from crits on procs which is a huge amount.

This may be all wrong and if so, you can call me dumb.

And yes, i am aware its not perfect math.

Wiz

On a recent raid fight I parsed:

215: Caustic Poison
90: Peace of Mind (Illy proc buff)
87: Bane of Pain (Sash of Pain)
81: Havoc's Fury (Mythical)
76: Strike of the Ethernauts (Signet of the Ethernauts proc)
67: Blade Chime (COB)
54: Crypt's Revenge (dirge)
51: Greater Undead Bane (item proc)
35: Bloodcall (darkened mithril boots proc)
27: Unholy Strike (SK proc)
8: Thugs (yes it's a spell)

791, so 791*1.3 = 1028.3 or a 237.3 gain.

So, just going by math, to equal 23 dps from vamp handles, I'd need about 10% spell crit.

And the bonus on spell crit doesn't have a top end whereas vamp handles will never produce more.

I also suspect there are more 'spell' effects that we can manage on our toons - thereby bringing the need from 10% spell crit to less... using things like Elixir of second sight (4% spell crit) if you have enough melee crit and DA buffed means there's your escape for 'excess' dps when you have the more immediate stuff taken care of...

You can also work to increase your int - which would make this formula change as well and further bring the 'break even' spell crit under 10%.

Wiz

ldog

Hmmm...if that is the case then even for you the vamp handle actually is better than the 2% spellcrit. Not sure how you did the math though, adn you might actually get more value from it than you calculated. I can't come up with a simple formula for it. I do know when I look at my zonewides I tend to crit exactly the amount of my crit %

Also are the vamp handles themselves affected by spellcrit? (If not then it must be a bard buff making mine crit) . I don't know about spellmod or int (doesn't look like it).

Will try to go through some of todays logs tomorrow.

Scoundril

Problem you probably did not account for on those procs is the times you DID crit already as well as any temp int buffs and such you had during the fights. If memory serves, melee or magic, most things in game have a 3:1 ratio which means every point of crit yields around a 0.8% increase in DPS (or used to be about that). With the addition of extra crit damage %, that value will go up even more making crit much more productive.

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Ofifi

Yeah, i was parsing solo on a training dummy so i have far fewer procs than in a raid. My solo crit is 1% right now so it didn't skew the data.

And scoundril, I don't get what you are saying with every point of crit yielding 0.8% dps increase. If I had 100% spell crit, I would not get an 80% overall dps boost. I would get 1.3*1.00*(spell dps). I would get a 30% boost to any spell damage I did.

I just use 1.3 because most procs have a small enough spread that 1.3*(min_dmg)>max_dmg so I don't have to worry about that max_dmg+1. It's not perfect, but it is close enough for not wanting to spend 18hrs figuring it out perfectly.

Scoundril

The math and calcs were actually done a long time ago. It's on the boards somewhere in the combat section and IIRC it made it's way to be posted on brig boards too. Your math only equates for the MIN damage from a crit, not the max as well. Thereby only giving a minimal increase. You have to use law of averages to get a moe accurate number.

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Ofifi

Everytime a proc goes off, it has an x% chance to crit doing 30% more dmg than what it would have done. Thus, the expected increase in total dmg output form spell crit is .3*x. It is that simple.

You don't need to use law of averages when you can run enough samples in ACT to get actual data that approaches the true value. And I did already explain why I used 1.3 across the board and not worry about Max_dmg+1