Sheirark

Dunno guys, i still really fail to see a huge downfall in my tanking ability. I can still easily offtank on eof raids, and even tank things like the Farstride unicorn whilst the plate guys are playing with the pretty butterflies, not to mention i pop 2k+ parses when i want to. After saying all that it's kinda hard for me to bitch about our class.. Just my 2cp

Gout

Good for you, and I mean that honestly. But are you what, EoF Fabled all around?

I went on a status raid over the weekend to Courts, even in partial KoS fabled and being 4-5 levels above everything I was CONSTANTLY oneshotted in defensive by the named epics. Sure I could last 5-10 seconds against them because alot of my avoidance is made up of deflection and parry. Anytime those two failed, SWAT and I went down faster then the average recruit does in the locker room of a raiding guild when its loot handout time.

It's complete bullshit that Sony wont fix it. Yes I have a guardian too, KoS fabled he can reach within 5% of the bruisers avoidance and easily 2-3 times the mitigation. The mitigation I dont mind, but I still dont see his fat ass out there breakdancing away from the mob and doing backflips. He should be getting nailed by nearly ever damn hit because his avoidance should SUCK and his mitigation should handle it.

They need to fix the deflection to work against epics and give us a HUGE uncontested avoidance boost to compensate for not using a shield with block.

The only good note, my bruiser had almost as many hitpoints as the fabled SK who had all the buffs. The sad part, it didnt mean shit.

If they wont fix our avoidance maybe we should get twice as many HP as any other tanks. A 25k bruiser should be able to tank as well as a 12k guardian with twice the mitigation.

Jalathan

but then you break the group/solo game Gout.

If they want to allow brawlers to tank, it should be because they can avoid being hit better than any other class out there (even my beloved paladin ;)) but right now that isn't working because deflection is a contested skill which epics can pretty much ignore

I still think taking them straight DPS is the answer, let their avoidance help them avoid aoes and let them be a t2 dps class (same category as rogues).

I've seen paladins who have hit 2k dps and could drop into a tanking mode with as much as 37% uncontested block. Even crappily geared paladins like me can push 25% uncontested block and ~60% avoidance and I do not have a single avoidance based adornment on yet...

Gout

I realize that Jalathan *how does one convery sarcarsm on this damned thing*. Obviously it would mess up heroics, which is why I said fix the avoidance. Although I wouldn't mind having the 25k hp

And don't make me go off about bruisers DPS like I did on the sissy assassin this morning saying that a bruiser parsing 2k is ruining the game due to over balance. *I'm suprised the thread is still up as it was on sony's forum*

Some bruisers like tanking, some like DPS, I think every bruiser likes that we are SUPPOSED to be able to do both and for heorics we can.

If a brig or swash can tank an epic like tacticians *which I realize doesnt hit that hard*, brawlers should be able to tank epics as well. If we can't tank them, then either A) they need to fix brawlers to be able to tank them B) they need to make it so scouts cant tank it either or C) no one should tank it, even the best tanks in the game because its broken. I don't think its fair to attempt to redesign the entire archetype system to move monks and bruisers over to their own DPS slot. And NO no one wants to be a utility bot either with more buffs Sony, so don't try that either..

The Devs simply need to fix the avoidance system in the game. Right now I don't think there is any doubt that its broken for brawlers and probably broken for alot of other people to a lesser degree.

Maybe if brawlers could use shields (make it a barstool for RP purposes) then maybe it would work right because we could have the uncontested block against epics. Since we can't, they need to fix the deflection vs block uncontested factor. That is our ~block~.

Block is uncontested right now for any tank using a shield, deflection should be as well. Problem solved. It's a simple flag in the game. They wouldn't even have to do it on heroics, only the epics. Then there is no risk of the brawlers making plate tanks obsolete on heroic groups which I think is something no one wants.


Everyone is making such a HUGE deal out of it, but honestly, they fixed avoidance once before (oh but for the days of 98.6% avoidance on my guardian), everyone survived, they can fix it again.

Jalathan

I understand what you are saying, but the issue is that it still wouldn't make brawlers any more desired on raids. There are only so many tank slots (as you well know) and adding two more classes to an already crowded market doesn't make good role sense really. To be honest, there really isn't room for 4 plate tanks, let alone 6...

Kaisoku

That's a bullshit answer. There's only room for one tank per group in heroic settings, but we do fine with 6 to choose from there.

You know what giving you 6 tanks instead of 4 does? More choice. That's all. Sometimes you gotta think about the rest of the playerbase outside of the l33t raid guilds who might want to still raid even though they don't have a Guardian or Zerker to show up.

Having the option of 6 instead of 4 won't suddenly crash the entire raiding community for christ sake.


Besides, if they actually took any of the ideas we've given before on making Tanks more meaningful in raids, then it wouldn't matter that there's 6 tanks instead of 4. Plus, considering tanks seem to be capable of doing t2 DPS these days I can't see how opening up 2 more tank bodies would be so bad.

Jalathan

You can tank heroics just fine now, so the only place this would impact is the raid scene. Also, in groups (as a paladin), I love to have a monk in a group, they are beautiful for amends with the agro they generate naturally through dps and reactives (I'm sure the same can be said for brusiers, I've not grouped with many).

All I'm saying (from someone who understands the difficulty of getting a position on a raid) making monks better RAID tanks will not solve their ability to get on raids. Making them stronger DPS (something every raid tanks in abundance) would. I'm not saying take away any of their group level tanking, just give them more for the raid scene, so you all who aren't raiders (which I was once myself, btw) won't be hurt (and possibly helped too) by the changes.

And no, it won't crash the entire raiding community. They take at most one brawler (for trap duty) now, they would take at most one brawler (for trap duty) even if you could tank raids. Right now, Guards, Zerkers and to a lessor degree paladins have those tanking spots locked up and what few they don't get aren't going to monks (and wouldn't after this change either) as they are going to brigands and swashies.

Jalathan

though, if you want to see monks become better tanks, then fixing avoidance isn't the answer as the classes would still be unreliable and unpredictable due to mitigation. Yah, you might avoid 80% of the hits, but the first time you got hit with 2 back to back bigs hits, would be all she wrote...

Rather, IF you are insistant upon fixing brawlers for raid tanking, make deflection not be an avoidance skill, but rather mitigation. Deflecting the blow is still taking it, just not straight on. So, if this became more mitigation based, you wouldn't have that unpredictability you see in monk tanks where they can be fine then, bam! dead...

Basically, you work them into the mit based tanking by allowing natural skill for mitigation.

Crabbok

yeah see my suggestion, it's just in line with what you describe pretty much. http://www.eq2flames.com/bruisers/11...ng-issues.html

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IshiruWildfire

Give the bruisers increased damage on there attacks and make monks attack faster with the same amount of damage they have now. It defines, it helps overall and that ends what needs to be done.

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"Since others have to tolerate my weaknesses, it is only fair that I should tolerate theirs." - William Allen White (1868-1944) American Writer, Journalist