malos

I am no expert by any means but I will agree that the proper group set up is gonna be a huge factor in a bruisers dps. Monks have awesome haste and that helps immensely in their dps. However all things being equal say like 200 haste cap on both the monk and bruiser the bruiser should be right there with the monk on dps if not more.

In solo play a monk if played correctly should out do a bruiser any day of the week hands down considering they both are equiped the same. Yes bruisers do have nice burst damage, but I think monks are a more consistant dpser and they are great at that.

I just enjoy my bruiser and yes I do think monks are more dps and better suited for groups than a bruiser which I wish wasn't the case but it is and I must live with that hehe. Both are nice to play and hopefully in time we shall see them getting a boost in the tanking dept and dps.

Mimn

As a solo class bruisers have the 2 huge advantages over monks. The burst dps and faster heal. But as of buffs and raid setups monks are not as much as a needy class as a bruiser. On the flipside a monk and a bruiser sitting with equal gear haste buff and dps mods the bruiser is going to outdps the monk.

Ok then like my normal group which is an OT group is based on a dirge inq mystic swash pally and monk. Just for arguments sake lets put the bruiser in where the swash is. Who is this group going to benifit more? A class that self buffs to 130 plus haste or the one that even with an agi ring will have a hard time breaking 100 haste? The only haste in the group is 12 from dog dog and a couple of short term bursts which are really non factors in haste. But to the dps mod starved monk its a very solid group. Now change out an illu for the dirge then this group becomes an entirely diffent story even without IA the haste buff does next to nothing for the monk while it then alllows the bruiser to match haste and while having higher dps mod. Monks are lower maintance as of buffs because of such a high self buff but they need key buffs. bruisers on the other hand can soak up dps mods and haste and have a much higher ceiling. bruisers to have higher haste have to wear a agi ring while a monk can put a plus 3 crit high stat ring there. Its all in how you use the class and what buffs you get.

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pagansaint

If you Inquis isn't running Fana most of the time then he fails to be 100% honest.

That same burst DPS that a bruiser has an advantage with in solo play is doubled in effectiveness when you combine it with proper timing, like was said on the previous page.

Self buffing haste that high is really not an advantage when it is so very easy to break 100 haste now, atleast when compared to a short term 100% proc ability and two all the time chance to proc abilities.

__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Splorch

I would agree that a monk vs bruiser in similar gear and aa setup and roll would not be a competition. A bruiser wearing something like cloak of flames or mistamoore + agi ring is set for haste. If you think a bruiser's dps is too much burst then that bruiser should learn to time their CA's more. Do i have dps dead spots? yeah i do, but usually when im chain pulling or i am trying to spike my damage on purpose. The problem with monks is you get NO help from your buffs. Haste, haste, haste, and more haste? Some Sta and Wis? good god. I get STR and agi, CA Damage, Damage proc, and Damage proc. Add a warlock or a templar with the blessing setup and my procs are going off over and over and over. No amount of haste would ever touch that.

Mimn

Hun our buff is a str wis not a sta wis self buff.

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Splorch

alrighty then, its been a long time since i was a monk, surry. but still. the fact remains our other buffs are better that yours(at least as far as helping us).

Faxon

tbh most are seeing that monks are better off this expansion than bruisers, and a lot of bruisers have betrayed to monk (see xenobe). while originally bruisers got the upper hand because of procs and high damage longer cool down + agi line over monks, now that there are 70 AP and every monk can spec crane flock + agi, we closed the gap a bit. also, with our quicker recasts, we take almost twice the advantage of + ca damage as bruisers do. my monk is buffed to some odd 400+ca damage in raid with the bruisers own buff and i can tell you, if we both have good groups and it is on an encounter which is parsable (IE NOT pawbuster), monks are out DPSing bruisers 90% of the time, given the same gear and ideal buff groups (haste + monk = FTL). all around though, the playing field has swapped again, much like it did from t5 to t6 where bruisers got ousted by monks as the king of the jungle. and in respect to burst dps, sure it is nice sometimes, but with the right amount of + ca gear a monk can mantain a good burst much better than a bruiser can due to our CAs being between 8 and 25 second aprox recast with agi, rather than all the way up to a minute or more on a few with bruiser. steady high on most all fights > moderately higher burst at best on a few.

just for the record, yes i do speak from experience here too. i played a bruiser in beta as i always have to compare vs monk, so i know more or less how the class works, and i can tell you that with far lesser gear, my monk is doing considerably better

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Mimn

I dont see how having to wear an agi ring over a band of thuuga is an advantage tbh. Yeah you can get over 100 haste but your gear in turn suffers. If i get even a bit of haste in a group i susally take off my other haste item for a bracelet that has crit and DA on it. Also having to use the cloak of flames over even the Marr cloak or any other cloak is a disadvantage. Being able to self buff high haste is an andvantage and you can wear other gear so you dont have to get all the haste. And i agree with fax, with the plus ca gear, peel and our raidwide buff I don't see any reason really to betray to a bruiser right now.

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pagansaint

You mean like a monk having to wear a Str MC Ring instead of the Agi Ring a Bruiser wears to try to make up some of difference that the proc's make?

Both of the sub classes have their advantages.

Monks get high self haste and better tanking ability.
Bruisers get superb burst DPS and large DPS proc's.

(And yes, the burst is MUCH larger than a monk can reach with any amount of +CA gear if a bruiser gears well for it.)

Personally I am playing mostly a Monk right now, but have access to an equal level and better equipped Bruiser.

The best group for either class is different than what would be great for the other for DPS purposes and even tanking.

As a bruiser I would prefer to always have a group with a Berserker and Templar or Fury for DPS while as a Monk I would much prefer a Coercer and an Inquisitor for DPS. (Dirge being a given for one of the other three slots for both groups)

But in all honesty, haste is definitely the short end of the stick for self buffs without making damn well sure you are well grouped to receive other DPS/Proc buffs.

But making a case based on not needing one of the MC rings is piss poor at best, without a doubt they are two of the best choices available for any melee class for the ring slot. Slap a fabled tag on them and make them drop from a raid mob and the argument would disappear.

__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Mimn

Hun unless you are not like most bruisers i have seen you wear both a agi ring and a dps mod ring. being able to wear a band of thuuga over a agi ring give me plus 75 ca and 2% crits plus better stats. That is 2 rings compared to one. Yes if you get the zerker buff and agitate then it helps you on both ends. But in a group where you dont have access to decent buffs the monk comes out alot better because though a little bit of gear a monk can get selfbuffed with procs plus 80 dps mod and 130 haste with only giving up a str ring slot and marr cloak. As i said monks can do more with less but bruisers have higher ceiling.

But as of ca damage yes bruisers have an advantage as of burst damage but where if both classes are running plus 250 ca modifier and the monks get more ca's in over a long fight (which on raids in rok most are) who is gonna benifit more? Unless they change a few things Monks will never beat a bruiser in burst dps. But to me burst dps means nothing tbh.

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