narcolepticltd

Newb question regarding these 2 skills. Is one better for tanking than the other or just raise the one that isn't up to par? Seeing alot of +deflection gear in tier 8, and I'm leaning more towards the agi line for +defense and faster reuse timers. thoughts?

Crabbok

From my understanding, Defense gives more to your avoidance (per point) than deflection, but the benefits of defense are greatly reduced when fighting epic mobs, where as deflection is not.

That about right folks?

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Ganjookie

I had thought Deflection gave more (7% maybe) vs Defense (5%) I'll have to check when I'm home, unless somebody posts in the mean time.

Splorch

Wrong crabbok, surry :/. The only part of Deflection that isnt affected by epics is our stance

At M1 50/50 stance has 8%
Tank stance has 16%
those percentages are uncontested, but have nothing to do with deflection as far as just +3 deflection or something to that effect.

Where "C" is figure contested variables like mobs level type of mob etc. where % is is where there is uncontested avoidance
The order of Checks is

ParryxC + Parry%(adornments usually) + Ripostle%(Brawler str AA)>
Deflection/blockxC + Deflection%(our stance)/Block%(things like the gladius SoD)>
BasexC + Dodge%(supple dogwood staff is sexay)

If im not mistaken the softcaps for contested are
Parry is 10%
Deflection 35%
Defense 40%

Now to give you an example of whats best and why Parry > all because it comes first and 25% of all parries are ripostes.

Figuring your at the cap on all and this is versus a solo even con mob,
90% of all hits get through parry.
then its 90% check vs deflection(forgetting about stance) 58.5% of all hit make it to defense.
35.1% of all attacks then make it through defense.

Therefore in conclusion the biggest factor in affecting avoidance is Deflection, hands down as it reduced hits taken by 31.5% and defense only reduced that number by 23.4%

And in case your wondering where my proof is with parry at 9%, deflection at 33.9% and defense at 39.3% my current overall avoidance average as generated by the game is 63.5% No doubt if i switch a few items to hit the caps it would read 64.9% overall.

If you wanted to add in our M1 tank stance (16% deflection)into the equation still figuring that your sitting at the soft caps on all the forms of avoidance.
90% after parry
40.5% get through deflection
24.3% get through defense

75.7% chance to miss a hit from an equal level solo mob in defensive.

pagansaint

You parry/riposte or fail that then get a chance to deflect/block or failing that you get to use defense/agility(base) or failing that you get to use any avoidance lends in the same order or failing that, you get hit.

The higher up/earlier in the avoidance check chain, the more effect per point you will get out of the avoidance.

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gungo

Its confusing but they are right i was just to lazy to try to explain all that =p

Miresh

While the math is right about which % matters more, the question is for +1 defense or deflection (or parry) which has the larger effect. I haven't looked at this in a while, but I don't think it is uniform. In other words, +1 skill does not give you a uniform +x%.

Also, the unconstested portion of avoidance in Def stance is the minimum deflection. I do not think that it adds 16%. It does add to Def/Deflection, but the uncontested portion is not an add-on.

Splorch

I tried to a run a test of which one outperforms the other per point, and I ran into a problem. I picked 2 pieces, One has +3 deflection, the other has +3 defense. Both have no AGI.

Dragonscale Gorget VS Tynnonium Shackle

Switching them out did absolutely nothing. 3 defense switched for 3 deflection did not change the numbers in any way. Removing either one completely was actually taking down the other stats not even present on the wrist piece to begin with. I even stayed out of stance to make sure i wasn't even close to the soft caps. I'm sorry I can't calculate the actual number, but it appears theres another broken mechanic at work

The only test i could perform was switching from no stance into stance. Going to full tank stance which for me is +28 def/deflection defense netted a whole .2% over deflection.

If I'm not mistaken the uncontest part is added on after the contested check, but will NOT show up in the persona window, just like picking up the + ripostle % in the strength line wont show up under parry(or have they fixed that? been a long time since i played with the STR line).

Honestly I think that if it simply made 16% of what you already had uncontested it would absolutely retard the point vs a solo mob, because in that battle you would have your actual avoidance as stated, and there would be no point to ever using defensive in that battle. In the case of mobs under us in levels it would hurt us because it would make 16% static deflection, whereas with the mob being say green to us it would multiply time whatever the contested formula is and probably produce about 25-30%. Its gotta be an additional.

Splorch

Finally figured out how to get the damn jewelry pieces to read right. +3 deflection netted +.7% Defense netted +.8% but you have to remember there are hundredths and thousandths that we cant even see. The difference before the mechanics of the game are figured in are minimal.

The over all posted avoidance number is

+3 Defense 10212
+3 Deflection 10200

Or quite literally, +3 defense > +3 Deflection by .1176%

Miresh

Def stance is not worthless against even con solo mobs as it does increase defense, deflection, and mitigation. However, you are right that the 16% uncontested is useless against them. I am nearly certain that represents a minimum number for deflection that you cannot fall below, regardless of to-hit bonuses on mobs. It was added to combat the fact that we had no minumum avoidance against high-con / epic mobs, not to improve our ability to solo even con mobs. The math would look something like

FinalDeflection% = Maximum(16% or NormalDeflection%)

NormalDelfection% would include all the corrections for con and to-hit bonuses, so you wouldn't see some wierd multiplication of the uncontested portion.

That math might also explain why we don't see very many (any?) "Target will Deflect x%" items. If the math is as simple as I am presenting, then those items would have to total greater than 16% to be effective. However, putting them on Dodge or Parry has a direct effect, with Parry being the best choice as explained above.