Roldor

Some thoughts in order of preference...

1. Raid enhancing ability - Change Gut Punch, remove the daze and replace it with an effect that cripples the mobs defences e.g. Decrease mitigation by 2000 and decrease defence/parry/deflection by 50. I'm thinking kind of like Dispatch, not an equal to dispatch but balanced competitively none the less.

2. Raid tanking ability - Change Retribution of Stone AA. Scrap existing AA and replace with, every time the Bruiser Deflects/Parries/Ripostes an attack there is a 50% chance to proc stone skin, duration 20 seconds, recast 3 minutes, Bruiser is dazed for the duration. I'm thinking this ability should be comparable to a Monks Tsunami or Guardians Tower of Stone/Dragoon's Reflexes. The purpose of this ability is to provide the bruiser a quick emergency buff to fire off when needing to pickup an epic after the MT has gone splat.

3. Raid utility - Change Soak Hit AA. Scrap existing AA and replace with, 3% damage absorption added to the Bruiser's Shake Off ability.

4. Change Rock Skin. Reduce the mitigation amount and change the side effect to a Daze. e.g. Mitigation Increased by 600, duration 30 seconds, caster dazed for the duration of the CA. The current stun effect makes this CA not worthwhile casting, there is little point in having a godly mitigation if you are unable to hold agro (Relying on Divide and Conquer for a few seconds doesn't really cut it imo).

5. Fix the strength line. There are many threads with good suggestions on this, enough said.

- Roldy

P.S - I'll repost this in the offical thread also

Arakin

How is DPS a lost cause with a Bruiser, thats the biggest bs I've heard.

Arakin

And Bruisers are the offensive half of the Brawler class, so dont expect to be a better tank then a Monk.

Orochan

Dps is a big part of the reason bruisers are invited to raids, not the only part, but it's the fact that we can DPS and tank/off tank at the same time that sets us apart from more specialized DPS classes.

So like arakin said, to say "dps is not a reason to bring bruisers to raids" is pretty much bull.

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Azraël

Well, to my personal experience, i got recruited into the #1 guild on my server because they needed a tank and thought the bruiser would be a good choice since they had no main active bruiser.
If they had no monks they prolly would have gone for the monk first i guess.
But hey, we can tank, and with the stuff i built i can actually tank not too bad. Also, having drag for some mage adds(silverwing, they sometimes stand in the AE zone) or to move fire columns on avatar of flames, makes the small cool thing others can't do.
So when the monk and I are in raid, that's 2 altrusim, 2 avoidance buff and when shit hits the fan(long ass stuns, one shotted tank,and whatever), the monk sometimes get to replace the MT while he gets back on feet, and i sometimes replace the "add control" guy (our Zerk).
As for dps, we do more than fine. My only concern is seeing a Zerker do better dps and having better survivability when tanking, and when the enchanters have so much to give to a raid with their buffs and can actually outparse me sometimes.

So i came to the conculsion we could use some help, but definitly not overpowering.
When someone asked to remove the bare fist requirement on STR line, it's going to make us overpowered and make all other lines look like garbage. 90% double attack base, lot of uncontested riposte, Chi, crushing debuff, all in the same line...hummm...
I don't want the bruiser to become the class every noob will pick cause they are overpowered and don't need skill to shine.

-Resistent Spirit spell, the mitigation buff, should be permanent, like the monk's haste buff also draining them hp overtime. +917 (M1 T8) is not going to turn us into plate tanks. (and 6 pieces vp set would just add some more miti or remove the drain hp componement)
-Rock skin, useless spell, being stunned during the spell is stupid. We gain a lot of mitigation, but just to stand around while the mob is not anymore on us since we do not generate aggro anymore. Remove the stun thing, at the cost of some of its mitigation value if necessary but the spell, as it is now, is useless.
-Some AAs need a change too, procs on STA are diapointing, end INT line not making it in RoK, Intercept line not popular enough, Stoneskin AA can be enhanced too. We shouldn't have garbage AAs, and awesome AAs.

Now i read someone is asking for dazes in counterpart, i say no.
Auto attack is still a hudge part of our dps, and therefore aggro. There's no need to have a stoneskin or rock skin on when you're dazed since you will loose aggro way too fast.
No dazes, no stifles, no stuns. I don't play a bruiser to be inactive and the empty gap between the time you burnt all your CAs and the new availablility of those makes me /yawn already. (even with 8 in AGI recasts)
For the rest the class is pretty fine imo, i like the way it is, and if we get a reuse componement on our raid wide buff i woud be really pleased because this is something i really look forward to.

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Crabbok

I don't recall anyone asking for the STR to be adjusted and have the unarmed requirement removed, while leaving the rest of the line exactly the same. From what I've read, most peopel tend to agree that a dminished effect if you have weapons equipped would be appropriate. Perhaps 2-3% Doubleattack per point if weapons equipped?

Honestly though the riposte is what... 5% at rank 8? That really isn't overpowered considering the amount of uncontested avoidance in game right now. 3% per slashing weapon, 3% per wrist, 15% from VP staff, 16% from defensive stance, 15% from Byzola cloak, 5% from Juggy helm, 3% from Juggy Tunic, 5% from 3-set Juggy bonus, 3% from Re2 Cloak, 1% on 2 Re2 Rings(Last mob and blue shiny reward). 2% from Mastercrafted neck.... getting 5% from a maxxed out AA line isn't overpowered, in fact it's underpowered if you have to be barefisted.

on the official forums, I propsed changing Rock Skin to an uncontested avoid buff also. The stun isn't worth the mit... because even with 2K extra mit we can still get blasted. It shoudl be a base% riposte for the 30 seconds, and if it's going to have ANY drawback, it should be a root if anything. It should be changed for monks also.

Completely agree with the STA line proc being shit..... it has always sucked.. but sucks even more now.

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Orochan

Make the KO AA improve casting speed/recovery while KO is in effect ^.^

Make the STA AA proc for more maybe?

Change rock skin to uncontested avoid like crabbok said

Make DnC be able to cast while moving

Either make the daze on gut punch ( or w/e ) last longer or change it into a medium mitigation debuff.

Change the entire intercept eof AA line, it's worthless atm imo. Maybe change it into a line specifically made to add bonuses to KO combo or one of our other Defining CA's. ( closed mind, stone deaf, etc etc )

Also instead of just adding a flat % bonus to damage to our CA's in the eof tree I think it should add damage and chance to hit, at a reduced % obviously, I'm thinking at rank 5 it could be +10% to base damage and +10% to base accuracy.

Those numbers can be changed though obviously, just an idea.

Well those are my thoughts lol.

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Azraël

Well, it's 1,5% for 1st point, making it 12% if it goes steady while you get 8 points.
So considering all the gear you listed (even if the Byzo cloak is not going to be the most popular considering the few guilds that managed to kill him) 12% more uncontested riposte is kinda uber.
How much can you get ? 16% defensive+15% cloak+15 Nexo staff+ 6% wrists + 4% food/drink +12% riposte you get the nice ammout of 68% already.
I don't know, in my opinion that is too much. What's the next expansion is going to give if we can get past 50% already?
So yeah, if you're barefist it means you can't affort super raiding gear and then 12% is really nice (especially since it works for our retribution of stone) for soloers/groupers that will not get byzo cloak or nexo staff anytime soon.
Ah well, maybe i'm wrong somewhere, please discuss.

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Novusod

I think the fixing the STR line would be extremely simple. ONLY remove the un-armed requirement from the de-buff. This would enable two possible builds that would fairly balanced to the other lines.

Partial build: 4-8-0-0-0
Full build: 6-8-4-4-2

This means if you want to get Chi and use weapons then you need to waste 12 AA on this instead of 24 AA.

It would make STR line into a decent line but not a required overpowered line.

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Crabbok

why go 68442? Why not 88422?

Anyways I'd rather see soem doubleattack on the STR line with weapons... even a little.

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