Crabbok

Started a discussion on the official forums,
The Future of the Bruiser

with the next expansion getting closer, it's likely that class skills and AA's are currently being designed so this is a perfect time to get on the ball and get SOE to do it right this time! Voice your opinion!

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Novusod

Well I have posted many times in the past on how I feel with the Bruiser.

1. DPS is a lost cause. DPS is not a reason to bring a bruiser on a raid. Many other classes can out DPS us and have other stuff to offer as well. Berserkers can out DPS us and out tank us. That to me is not right.

2. We need to be made into better tanks. We don't need to be the best tanks but we sould be able to get the job done. No fighter should just go SPLAT the instant an Epic mob touches us.

3. We need more raid utility. We have the least utility of any class. Something like a group wide KO combo would be nice or group wide Closed mind.

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Azraël

1 - Yeah, being out parsed by zerkers and out-tanked is not right to me either. But with a good group we can tear the parse apart even without uber gear, just need some efforts, good timing, and consumables up. So dps is not a totally lost cause

2 - I TOTALLY agree with this one, i'm sick of being one shotted on trash pull in VP... Also in the instances the mobs are hitting us way too nasty, the healers are like wtf you getting slaughtered. I can't tank maiden in defensive since i'd not be hitting enough to keep aggro off the assassin/wizzy who already have their mythicals (i don't have it yet). So i'm in semi stance there, and with not so tragic gear i still get beat way too hard to my taste.
I mentored for a T7 instance the other day, barely needed heals...

3 - I don't see that happening. But we definitly could use some raid utility. Maybe something that would convince your raid leader to put you in the melee group instead of the garbage group.
Anyway, if they add us some utility, i don't want it at the cost of what we already have. Like your close mind example, if they make it group wide but for 15seconds only, i'm not sure i will like it.

My beggings would go for some more tankage abilities. RoK mobs are hitting insanely hard, and compared to plate tanks, we lack survivability, when as Novusod mentioned it, some of those plate can outparse us. Also i'd love some faster recasting =p

my 2cp

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Crabbok

Well for faster recasting, you have Chi, or you also have the AGI line, so there 2 AA options built for us already right there.

I doubt that what bruisers really need is "Tanking" ability, though I wouldn't mind seeing a self save-vs death ability. Here is why...

24 classes in this game, 24 spots in raid. And the recurring problem is that we continue to see illusionists take up 3 raid spots, and bards take up 4. We need interchangability and utility.

Most everyone can agree that we need more utility, and the way I'm pushing for it is to give us something that makes up for the lack of one of these other classes that you often see 2-3 of in a raid. Give us DPS and accuracy to help make up for lack of a dirge in group, or give us doubleattack and mana regen to help make up for lack of illusionist.

Or something like that. Of course make our utility an option to choose with new AA lines, perhaps one bruiser wants to spec out for only dps, while another wants to spec for utility.

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Novusod

In my experience there is different mechanic between epic and heroic content that comes out very unfavorable for bruiser. Bruisers are very good at group content but are horrible at epics. I will try to explain a bit why.

1. To continue on the dps front an improvement that I had suggested before was that devastation fist be allowed on non-named epics including all trash and adds at about 5% of total health. In group content a lot of my parse comes from devastation fist while in epic content very little of it does. So right there I am fighting with one hand behind my back in raids. Then there are other mechanics like our 'stomp' which requires a mob to be stunned to get the full damage amount. Since epics can't really be stunned that is more our dps out the window. I don't think it would be game breaking for anyone to fix this.


2. On the tanking front I have no VP gear yet I can clear Maidens with only one healer. With AA spec I can get over 60% avoidance in offensive stance. In heroic content 60% avoidance IS 60% avoidance but when it comes to epics that same 60% avoidance is more like 5% avoidance so it is pretty much one shot equals dead. If epics didn't ignore our avoidance it wouldn't be so bad.


3. Again on utility we have the LEAST utility of any of the other 23 classes. Even the Shadow knight has more raid utility than bruiser. Guardians, rangers, and assassins have more utility then we do. If we can't dps or can't tank then they have to give us SOMETHING. I like the idea of being a mini dirge. Give us mini CoB or strike through. Even group wide heal would be a nice choice.

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Elucard

I'm in agreement with basically everything said so far. It'd be great to see more utility that makes us even slightly more desirable in a raid.

I enjoy group content and feel 'mostly' successful in that aspect. Though, as stated, it seems odd that other tank classes out tank and out dps us.

The raiding bruiser, who has no real need/desire to group wants to be able to offer a raid something that makes them feel valuable. Maybe increased utility and increased dps based on AA's would give the group focused bruisers and raid focused bruisers a chance at succeeding in both realms.

Most classes (as far as I know) are at a place where they offer fairly equal value to both raid and group.

Ajeco

The next expansion will bring about the merger of the monk and bruiser class and they shall be called "Men in Tights"!

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Cunningham

I have been able to pick up and tank many mobs in vp and other wise. It seemed to me the main concern is getting healers to heal you. Pop mythical, drag, and D&C(10 secs tanking). If stone deaf and close mind are up as well burn em give the healers a sec to get some wards on you and by then someone should have a plate tank coming up. They get hate on the main tank again and when all is good fd or if u have it switch into shiftiness and de-agro. Not gonna say I don't die doing this but it has worked many times. I have also tanked the Shade on Phara Dar and other vp mobs so Bruisers can tank but I am guessing spec and gear are where the differences lie. HOWEVER,.... SOE...... We have no raid utility thats all I hear in my raiding guild is but you have no utility. Our raid wide is almost useless. I have pushed 90% attendance for 2 years and it was worse in EOF when our raid wide was garbage. This is the change needed. Dps I do fine bruisers can parse high personally I have almost hit 7k in vp and other zones more than a few times.( I do not use chi either it costs to much).

I would like to see something like a group agility buff and maybe a debuff that no one else has to make use get in raid more. Someone mentioned a group stone deaf or close mind. these are the right tracks. Bruisers should not be there to stand at a statue and wait to click it or harvest a shiney because we can fd to drop agro or have high survivability with heals. I want to be in the raid hitting the mob no t watching from a distance. Many fights seem to have a need for this extra man solo doing some click or orb or something. Nexona...Drushk....Venrill.....Leviathan.......Val or.....


SOE drop raid pvp so people can go out and have a little fun solo pvp or questing without a stacked raid to go with them and give bruiser a main roll for something that requires us to be useful in dps the mob not deactivating something.

Crabbok

Utility is what we all agree on. I think our next task as a community is to all agree on what we want. Popular suggestions I have heard are Raid/Groupwide Chi or Knockout, and changing our raid buff to give dps and accuracy.

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Ajeco

How's about Chi Absorb:

A CA that absorbs a random ability from the mob, scales it down to the bruiser's str/level and is made available for use once a fight by the bruiser.

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