Corydonn

Perhaps our raidwide could be a strikethrough that works on spell resists and melee misses for the same % or half that % that monks get of their haste.

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gungo

Bottom line for mimm.
Yes if this change goes through it will likely mean bruiser will get taken over monks in raids.
This is why mimm is bitching she wants us to suck more.

Eitherway it is not a personal dps buff. Its a raid wide buff.
No fucking bruiser cares about the 50dps or so we will gain soloing with this buff by reducing our 1min reuse combat art to 52 secs. (based on a 14.4% reuse if equal to monk casting haste)

It is a raid utility buff so that we can have a real reason to need us on raids.

I personally hope that the dps from each brawler and the utility of thier buffs allow them to each be needed on raids so that we can see guilds taking 4 fighters on raids. monk, bruiser, guard, pally/zerk.

This might mean monks needs some fixes as well. Maybe fixing strikethrough to not suck and be a straight 5-10% melee accuracy buff. This does not mean making the bruiser raid wide suck so that mimm can protect her turf.

Finally mimm is a fucking retard if she truly believes that casting haste only helps casters and healers and doesnt effect fighters and scouts much.

curuw

so you think with current itemisation and combatmechanics
dps is not better than haste and reuse is not better than casthaste ?

gungo

haste > Dps
reuse > cast haste

what the fuck is your point bruisers don't get a raid wide dps buff.
We geta combat art damage buff. Which is even worse then dps buff with current itemization.

and reuse while i personally prefer over casting haste for some key abilites. Doesn't mean it is better for a raidwide.

A monk can easily test the dps changes with thier agi line and raid buff. How much dps did you really gain from the reuse ability in the agi line?

Crabbok

I think re-use really will shine on your zonewide honestly. I study casting orders and i'm at the training wall nearly everyday, and I think an additional 8-13% re-use will drasticly change the optimal casting order for bruisers, and possibly all classes.

And I disagree with Gungo that Haste > Dps. Simply because in raiding today Haste is so much easier to come by. I mean fuck, take off all attack speed items, and raid with 2 mythical dirges... your going to be over 100 haste constantly... everybody and their brother buffs haste.
Templar, Illusionist, Monk, Troubador, Dirge(CoB),Both Shamans (W/Str Line)
Note that both dirges CoB haste, and Monks haste are raidwide, and all other hastes are groupwide. (Mythical Illy of course)

Dps is from what? dirge, Coercer, and Inquistor? Coercer and Inq are both single target only, and coercer is only in MT group usually, so chances are in a raid your getting twice the haste mod over the dps mod.

yeah I love DPS mod.... love it with a fist!

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gungo

adornments and items add alot of dps as well.
You dont need to wear a haste item there are plenty of item upgrades that you can use over a haste item.
But my guess is i am sure you do anyway.

but haste point for point raises damage more then adding DPS.

Azraël

Then what weapon are you using Gungo?
I'm wondering because i have 2,5s delay on my weap, so some base haste, from di zok belt or the amulet in Kor Sha, or the earring with 40 will be enough to stack with the added bonuses you get in raid.
You can hardly make it way faster than 2,5seconds, i consider it pretty nice already, 2CAS, one auto attack, and so on.
When dps you can get 24 base with both adorns, then you get procs usually, or buffs if you have one of the class Crabbok mentioned.
And if i remember right, 200 haste = auto attack is twice faster.
and same for dps, 200=twice your base auto attack values.
For example, i have solobuffed 34 dps mod and my mythical actual damage is 202-1147... As for 38 Haste i get my weap at 2,4 delay instead of the 2,5(+dualwielding malus).
I don't use long delay weappns, thus making haste less useful, or then, i need a fuckton of it to see the delay going faster. When as for dps it's growing way faster.
So i follow Crabbok there, dps and reuse> haste and casting speed

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Skratt

Totally agree with you on that bruisers need a reason to have a spot on raids... Right now we have everyone complain if we lack a monk for raid.....while everyone complains if you would take a bruiser over any other class (serious) that has any utility or dps

I still think they need to revert the raidwide to what it was before + dps and Reuse FTW... or if not + mele accuracy /spell casting accuracy (10% both cases)

redsnapper

Crabbok, Gungo.. What does your raid group usually look like?

Usually mine looks like: Defiler, Inquisitor, Dirge, me (bruiser), Swash, Coercer.

I don't complain about this group at all.. but I'm really lacking on some much needed haste. I sit at around 33 haste self buffed.

Last night we were goofing around in TPR and was in a group with :Dirge, Illy, Troub, Zerker, Warden, Inquis, me.. Now that was a crazy ass group. (and unrealistic that I'd ever have that on a real raid)

Crabbok

Redsnapper, that is a strange group indeed. Are you MT for your guild? Does your guild have mythicals?

We run 1 coercer for MT group, and typically don't have more than 1 healer per group unles sits' MT group. My group might be Me, Illy, Dirge, Mystic, Assasin, Brig....
Or might be Me, Illy, Templar, Troub, Dirge, Swashy, Wizard,
Or might be Me, Monk, Conj, Illy, Inq, Brig

It often changes but there are always at least 2-3 other sources giving me haste. Weather it's haste from raidwde Monk buff or raidwide CoB, or haste from illy, templar, Troub, or even defiler sometimes... I never have less than 100 haste in a raid...

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