Azraël

I love that idea, really.
And yeah i'm quite happy with the dps we got, it's the raid dirges/enchanters that simply have too much considering their utility and dps output imo.
Tanking and survival isn't much a problem now, if i can't survive through some difficult fight i'm usually not the only tank not able to.
Problem is as stated above, AoE aggro that still sux on some fights when you get zerged.

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Imogan

The nerfage will only happen if people whine to get more dps. DPS is fine, it's already the highest for fighters on single targets (excluding SKs cause they are broken). Bruisers should be 85-90% of rogue dps, 75-80% of assassin dps, how much more do you want?

On top of that bruisers have the potential to be second only to guardians, with their 75 second ToS and 2k hp buff, in terms of raid tanking survivability. Double ToS's recast, and I wouldn't be suprised if Trumak was still Trumak.

And in between those 2 extremes bruisers can use their multitude of special damage absorb/leech skills to significanty benefit other tanks in the raid.

I think in a lot of ways bruisers are as OP as SKs, its just it doesn't show up in the parse like it does for SKs. That and the fact that a vast majority of bruisers believe the forums, and sterotypes that bruisers (brawlers in general) are unable to tank and can barely dps.

I think bruiser have nothing to fear from the revamp except themselves. Shine a light too bright and someone might see it.

Crabbok

keep on thinking that. I've been playing a bruiser since launch and EVERY major update it's been a See-Saw. One year we are pretty good, the next year we suck, then we get something good, then we suck.... over and over. TSO AA's gave us some much needed loving, which is great, but trust me, nerfs are incomming.

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Roldor

The ability to tank was a key reason why I rolled a Bruiser.

I don't pretend to want to be anything more than an add/emergency tank on a raid but I get much enjoyment from tanking instances and I expect that with the release of the x2 raid zone I will get much enjoyment tanking in an MT/OT capacity.

By and large I personally really do like the role of the Bruiser class the way it is at the moment. We're reasonably respectable tanks and in a raid situation we can add some respectable DPS or OT. The soloability of the Bruiser is esspecially fun with abilities like FD, I would be incredibly sad to see FD nerfed.

So far as a fighter change is concerned off the top of my head I would like to see the following:

- Complete parity between all the fighter classes i.e. equal achievement melee crit, double attack, equal weapon delay/spread etc.
- Improved taunt values i.e. make taunting a little more worthwhile
- Add threat components to blue aoes
- Remove penalties from stances and make stances more important at avoiding/mitigating damage not at holding agro
- Make deflection truely uncontested
- Give brawlers a small base deflection chance while in offensive stance
- Fix the useless abilities - Resistant Spirit, Rock Skin, Sonic Punch
- Add aoe auto attack to the WIS line
- Add attack speed or DPS mod to the STA line
- Return the self DPS mod buff in a similar amount to the monks attack speed buffs
- Redesign the Bruiser intercede line so as it can be a useful tool to use on an MT/OT in a raid situation allow the end line ability to provide some enhancement to shake off

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head without getting too caried away down the redesign the whole game path. Could we get a compiled list going at the start of this thread perhaps?

- Roldy

Gosta Dirk

*Shakes head* at soe

True, they can do something with our class, but as I see it its not on the dps side they need to fix anything, it’s in our tank role we lack...
I see no reason why any guilds can’t chose the tank they want, why a raid leader cant use the off tank he prefer, as it is now the choice is pretty much the same everywhere, and Brawlers are usually not in the picture when thinking about MT’s and OT’s..
Why is this? Why do we have 6 different tanks and only 1 of them is used as raid MT?

Sure, there are Guilds that don’t use Guardians as MT, but I’m sure you can find 10 Guardian MT’s for every non guardian MT...

When I first made the choice of retiring my Troub to play Bruiser, I did it for 2 single reasons...

I want to do dps in raids, not like Assassins or Wizards, but more than Bards and Chanters, and while doing dps, I would be able to rescue, drag, hold, and tank a mob for a short duration, just in case MT gets 1shotted or something like that...

But outside raids I want to be able to tank instances, and do it just as “easy” as the plate tanks with same gear/skill...
I have tanked both sisters and Maestro in Shard of Hate, but see if you can find me 2 healers that can hold me up on Varsoon!! Impossible…

In my opinion, what we need is to use our stances in the right way...

Offensive = 100 % dps

This I want to use when I go in groups as dps, or when fighting trash stuff in raids, no survival expected in this stance, but still be able to give my high avoid to MT...
This could be with lowered mitigation, or something like that, just don’t touch the Avoidance.
Dps between Assassins/wizards and Swashy/Briggy is what I would aim for in this stance to make it worth the spot...

Mid stance 75 % dps 25 % tank

This is where I want to be able to just pop an emergency something and hold a mob for a short duration while the MT gets up and ready to take over again, and still be able to do some dps while not “taking over”...
Dps between Rouge and Bard/chanters, maybe even a little higher just to make it worth having us in the raid...

Def stance = 100 % Tank

This is where I want to be able to Tank/OT like every other fighter classes, doesn’t matter if it’s a level 87^^^x4 mob or a 62 solo mob... I’m fighter in Tank stance, I want to tank...
Dps here, I’m not sure about, but it should be the same for us as for every other tank in def stance...

A little side note, I do enjoy tanking, and the only reason I made a Bruiser was so I could Tank instances when not raiding..
In time, and if our MT or OT is not there for a raid, I would sure as hell like to do my very best to step up in that role instead of him, not that made him for the purpose of being raid MT / OT..

Just my 2cp

gungo

What i want and whats best for the game are 2 different things sadly.
What would be best for the game is to make brawlers into a rogue type dps class with some GOOD utility. Because 4 fighters is all this game can truly handle.

What i want is to be a viable off tank w the best fighter dps.
As a fighter if they want to really go forward with the stance choice thing they should only have a defensive and offensive stance. Something where one or the other is ALWAYS up and just toggles between the two, changing stances in the middle of battle should be quick and clear and stance dancing should be a viable tactic.

None of this will happen and we will always be in this weird limbo position we have always been. Not quite a tank, not quite a dps and always in a state of why are we needed.

Crabbok

QFE

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malos

I agree with you. Six tanks trying to share the spot light and have any distinct traits as tanks are just to much to contend with. Moving brawlers into an arch-type their own might allow brawlers to keep from being compaired to the other fighters without there being any inner arch-type jealousy. Maybe.

Roldor

It's too late to go changing core archtype stuff now. We've got to work with what we have.

- Roldy

Disturbed

for the ppl that still keep going on about the class not being that great of an OT/MT, you really need to get past that, hate to turn this into some warped e-peen thing, but i can't remember the last time any other tank was used other then me/guard when it came to duel tanking end-game mobs , instance or contested ontop of mt'in at times. Alot of you keep going on about why cant all tanks be viable as mt instead of just guards, guards were and have always been intended to be the main meatshield, thats always been stated, soe has never hidden that fact.
The problem is every class, not just tanks, every class is fucked in a way and thats thrown everything else of balance. Other then the obvious OP things in T5, who can honestly say that classes didn't make alot more sense and were better balanced around each other then now? Chanters in particular are a prime example, how can a class that gives that much utility be allowed to put out as much dps that they do?

You might think thats going off topic but every class affects the other in a non-direct way.
Balance as a whole is fucked, thats why classes just like brawers are like we are.

Plus its always been said, gungo is right theres too many tanks, if it came to a choice for the sake of the game we'd end up pure DPS.