Fighter Revamp Erased

Crabbok · 03-18-2009, 02:10 PM

The fighter revamp on test is NOT going to happen.

EverQuest II Players

They are however, going to attempt another fighter revamp, though starting at the ground up. Here is a time to voice our opinions on how we would like to be. What changes would you like to be made in regards to overall hate gain, and our roles in EQ2?

Personally I would like for both brawler types to shift focus away from tanking and a little more toward dps. My favorite roles to play are pure DPS, and max avoidance for avoid buffing the MT. I personally would like to see that become our role more so than being a main tank. I would like to see our defensive stance lean more towards lending avoidance, and less towards hurting our dps.

What ideas do you guys have as far as an all new fighter revamp? How do you see bruisers fitting into a new revamp?

Disturbed · 03-18-2009, 02:59 PM

People will argue the Tank Vs DPS till their blue in the face, the thing people have to understand is Hybrid classes will always get fucked over at one stage or another, there needs to be one direction with a particular class otherwise as we all know it's just too damn hard to balance.

Having said that, if i decided to come back one day i don't think i'd particularly like the fact my class is either just a straight tank or a straight DPS.

I think they should do a number of things with this, yes it would be big and long process but if they are doing it from the ground up then it needs to be done.

1) Merge Monk/Bruiser just into the "Brawler" what you are (for roleplayers benefit more then anything) depends on your starting city. So for example - you pick Brawler on charater screen and choose Qeynos = when your inspected your a monk, maybe give them a title that says Monk aswell.
Same goes if you roll the toon Evil cept your Bruiser.

This way the CA/Buffs etc arn't different they just get names applied depending on what you are so we are the same but for the ppl that like being a Monk but not a Bruiser can still be that etc.

2) Since it was a Hybrid class, don't take that away from the people let them choose and let them choose properly, as in under the AA tables give us two new tabs one for Strict tanking - which obviously buffs everything to do with being a tank while lowering our dps output to that of what tanks "should" be.

Then give us a DPS tab which obviously lowers the tanking ability but raises the DPS to that of whatever tier DPS they want us to be.

However once you start in one tab you cannot enter the other, so therefore we can't go back to the Hybrid way of doing things.

If they arn't going to go to that extent then i personally agree with Crab, i prefere DPS route but i'd like some Utility in there that actually matters when coming to a raid setup and avoidance buffing sounds like its the right path to go.

The other thing they could also do is again with us being a Hybrid class is make are path (DPS/Tank) more definitive rather than allowing us to swap by respecing, they could do that by doing a small kind of questline (like the oldskool class quests) that would allow you to choose your path of either tanking or DPS.
I'd sooner have the choice of one role or the other and being able to go change when i want though, to keep with the original idea of the Brawlers being kinda hybrid, although as stated above we won't ever be the mix at the same time, just one role.

Quick example

Raids are called and they have enough tanks, you go spec full dps which now means your no longer the "o shit" tank or the OT/duel tank w/e you do in your guild right now, your the DPS brawler.

But again i think they need to go a little bit deeper and look at what dmg various classes take by themselves, end-game geared assn's shouldn't be able to peel then take 5 hits or w/e imo, dps dies if they peel, tanks live, thats how i personally see it but obviously that isn't the case.

Crabbok · 03-18-2009, 03:04 PM

I like being a "quick" tank, being able to pop a temp for 100% avoid, hit divide and Conquer, and hold the mob down until the MT is rezzed. Or maybe I need to drag a mob.

... OMG please bring drag back and let us use it to position epics! Remove the restriction "this mob not draggable" that currently appears on almost everything!

Disturbed · 03-18-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabbok

I like being a "quick" tank, being able to pop a temp for 100% avoid, hit divide and Conquer, and hold the mob down until the MT is rezzed. Or maybe I need to drag a mob.

... OMG please bring drag back and let us use it to position epics! Remove the restriction "this mob not draggable" that currently appears on almost everything!

The only problem with that is at the begining of an xpac then maybe abit, hell lets say alot throughout for arguments sake , it's good to have, but when your guild is farming everything other then the now and again fuck up it's not really required.

It's kinda hard to argue that point because i know perfect well that shit always has a chance to go wrong no matter how many times you've cleared something but to me it's not consistant enough to be a role for a class.

DPS classes always dps, from start to finish
Tanks always tank from start to finish
Buff bots buff from start to finish

"o shit" tanks are the only inconsistant ones and i don't think the downgrade in dps and/or tanking is worth that.

Lets go back to somewhere like VP, yea ok your tank gets one shotted honestly do you think just because you picked it up you saved the raid? Maybe you did, maybe you didn't just one of those things you'll never know but look at it from the other way, your no longer the "o shit" tank, your MT dies raid wipes....so? You rez and spend at max two mins running back, yea ok, running back sucks but is it really THAT bad that one particular class that has had so much trouble over the years has to fill the role of maybe saving the raid a run?

Crabbok · 03-18-2009, 03:29 PM

I don't want our role to be "the quick tank", I want our role to be DPS , and also to retain "Quick Tank" functions for when needed.

dakster · 03-18-2009, 03:50 PM

Personally in my perfect world, they would remove brawler from being tanks at all. Just have Warriors and Crusaders, and make brawlers DPS only, equivalent with scouts dps. Keep leather, bring our avoidance, deflection etc down just to the point so its a bit better than scouts so its about equal with their chain.

I want to be top DPS. I dont want to wiggle my fingers, and i dont want to wear chain and have swords. I want to be a martial artist, jumping, kicking, and pounding. Right now im forced trying to make a class do what its not really supposed to do, but can if you "get all the right gear" which is pretty limiting.

Unfortunately they could never shake up the system that hugely. So it would have to work with the stances. Defensive needs to add the required amount of avoidance, block, deflection, etc to become equal to the plate counterpart. Only way you can figure that out is with testing. Since brawlers are the most offensive of the tanks, maybe give them a bit fewer "tank utility" abilities, but their raw basic ability to take damage and live needs to be equal at the cost of their DPS being pretty substantially lower.

Also since theyre the most offensive tanks, when in offensive stance id like to see their DPS abilities massively increased to about the lower side of scout DPS. Their tanking ability would also be severely penalized, perhaps not even allowing certain mechanics (block or deflection or something) or CA's being used. for example "CA requires offensive/defensive stance"

I dont see where the problem is that they have to allow tank to DPS as high as everyone else "for keeping aggro's sake". If the progression and itemization of the game has caused DPS classes to do more and more damage, guess what one simple fix ((UPDATE NOTES: Raised taunt amount on all taunts across the board to be more in line with current DPS trends)) issue resolved. As far as tanking in general, I like the idea of taunt crits. Lower tanks dps overall to where it should be considering in the fact that theyre tank, and assuming they dont need the dps to keep aggro. Then introduce the itemization for them to progress and get better, same as spells, melee, ranged etc. Items with +taunt crit, base +aggression, hell throw in blah blah chance at double taunt. Whatever, im sure there are other good ideas to throw in there. Make a tanks progression in the game aggro skill improving, instead of melee skill improving like scouts look for.

Screw this whole, Single target tank, AoE tank BS. All tanks should tank both just as well. They should have the same number of taunts, be it single target, multiple target, blue green whatever. Let the theme of the class be the determining factor in char class chosen. Oh im emo i want to play sk. oh im a goody two shoes i want to play pally. Oh im ripped and go to the gym and am calm I want to play guardian. Oh im ripped and go to the gym im on steroids and a bit crazy i want to play berserker. No matter what you choose, they can all tank single and multi just as well. You should be able to perform the slot you want, with the flavor you choose.

Just my opinion.

Gaige · 03-18-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabbok

I don't want our role to be "the quick tank", I want our role to be DPS , and also to retain "Quick Tank" functions for when needed.

I'm sure then that you envision all DPS classes having a "quick tank" function as well?

dakster · 03-18-2009, 04:10 PM

I would just give up on the quick tank, off tank, "This class is a crappy tank so I have to make up a category of tanking where im only asked to do it for 10 seconds at time so my class kind of makes sense" thing, and take a more focused approach.

We should be a new archetype of DPS. The casters, the scouts, and the brawlers.

Avoidance and deflection is just a horrible mechanic to base a tank off of anyways.

We should have avoidance and deflection, but only to bring us up to equivalent with our chain counterparts.

I would venture to say 90% of brawlers would be ok with this. I dont know of anyone who said, "I chose a brawler because I really REALLY want to tank" Its always almost always "DPS! ooh and I can tank a little too"

***Dream sequence ends....***

loche · 03-18-2009, 04:16 PM

i agree with wanting to be DPS....the main reason i play brawler now is because i saw what dps a fighter could do. I was amazed when my zerker was able to do 7k with very little if the way of dps buffs, so then my raid leader said he would like the raid buff from bruiser, so i betraying my farmonk and thought it would be fun to beat the scouts with another tank.

i would LOVE if bruisers were just considered DPS, but tbh i dont want to lose my avoid, its too much fun for farming names and pvp.

Crabbok · 03-18-2009, 04:33 PM

[quote=dakster;894871
I would venture to say 90% of brawlers would be ok with this. I dont know of anyone who said, "I chose a brawler because I really REALLY want to tank" Its always almost always "DPS! ooh and I can tank a little too"

[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. I don't know any brawlers who play their class simply because of the joy of tanking. I love my avoidance and survivability for soloing purposes, but If asked to give up either Tankiing or DPSing, I'd have to give up tanking. And SoE seems to want to force us to choose.