Couch

He was just lucky. We all know how suck the RNG is in eq2. For example, FD failed in a row for 3 times even when the FD successful rate is 97%.

Beyond that, even the damage on blood rake is physical damage, we never know if the damage spread of blood rake may be modified by magic debuff or not.

For example, crane whirl, it's physical damage. But it can be increased with spell base damage and the crit chance of crane whirl is based on your spell crit chance instead of melee crit chance.

PS: the max damage of blood rake should be ~6493 based on crit equation offered by SoE.

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gungo

He was lucky but the spread on that combat art is very small so either way his min hit would of been
4357

On each of his 6 attempts he rolled over 3212 (for 3212 x 1.52 = 4883) on die of 2867 - 4272

Your right. That doesn't make sense.

Crabbok

Thanks again for all the information here. You see I had always thought that player crits worked by doing a new roll altogether, I didn't realize that they kept the same roll and simply modified it. With that being the case, we actually DO pretty much get the shaft.

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Shidoshi

which is exactly what i was talking about in the other thread. seems like this is intended because if we had ca's more in line with the brig (comparatively the spread, not the debuff portion) we'd be out dpsing them every time with relative same stats considering were on a higher auto attack table. Not that we dont already, ive got pretty solid gear and with a dirge/illy/inquis im usually top 4 on the parse.

Crabbok

Yeah Shidoshi I understand you now. The breakdown for me was the fact that they keep the same roll. I consider myself fairly knowledgible on bruiser topics, but never knew that. Glad I asked though, knowledge is power.

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Harowen

Worth noting is that the "die roll" does not include your ca modifier, but DOES include the base damage adjustment. For good comparative testing you'd want to get a scrape together of all your combat arts at 1220+ str with no CA mod and no base CA damage.

I haven't done a thorough scrape on bruiser CA's as mine is only about half mastered and it's not my primary raiding char so doesn't get the same level of attention that my coercer gets.

For illustrative purposes, let's say that your display on Front Kick of 578 - 1735 includes 500 CA mod. Due to limiting of +50% from CA mod this would result in the base actually being:
385 - 1235, such that 385/2 = 192.5, 385+192.5 = 577.5 (close enough) and 1235/2 = 617.5, which is higher than the 500 mod you have so 1235+500 = 1735.

When it rolls the damage it will roll 385-1235. At normal unmodified crit rate of 1.30% any roll of less than 951 will be boosted to 1236 damage.
e.g. 1236 (which is max+1) / 1.30 = 950.77, ceiling() the roll to 951 to see what's required to have the result not get truncated to merely max.
So 385-950 on the roll changes the "roll" to be 951, and can then add in up to 50% of that in CA mod, or 475. This makes the minimum crit hit 951 + 475 or 1426. The range of the CA that is boosted to max+1 is (950-385) / (1236-385), 565/851 = 66.39% Note that the damage still needs the crit boost so 1426 x 1.30 = 1853.8

Now if you have a 1.52% crit damage rate it changes as follows:
1236 / 1.52 = 813.157, ceiling() to 814.
Now a roll of 385-813 will change the roll to be 814, up to 407 added in CA mod or 1221. 1221 x 1.52 = 1856. The range that was boosted is (814-385) or 429/851 or 50.41%.

This is counter intuitive as your minimum crit doesn't really change very much. That is because a greater portion of the rolls are landing above the minimum crit threshold and hitting for higher than the minimum crit amount.

This is also why spell crit boost works so much more in favor of tight ranges.
Take hemorrhage for my coercer. The 1220 int base damage on it is 653 - 883. A quick 653 x 1.3 = 848.9, a roll of 680 or higher will hit for max+1 or more, or 88.3% of the time.

Add in a mere 6% base spell damage and 653 x 1.36 = 888, resulting in 100% of hits will exceed max + 1 on a crit. With our example for Front Kick, it will never be the case.

Why is this important? Well, from just a critical hit point of view, classes that experienced this boost to max+1 saw more of a gain from a critical hit. Front kick rolling a 350 and getting boosted to 1236 didn't experience a mere 1.30 multiplier, it experienced a 3.53 multiplier.

Add in critical boost though, and the 350 is STILL GETTING a 3.53 multiplier, because that's higher than 1.52. It takes rolling 852 before you start seeing a return on the critical boost investment. Hemorrhage, in comparison, sees a return on the critical boost investment on 100% of rolls after 6% base spell damage has been obtained.

At the far extreme, let's say you have 100% base CA mod. Front Kick is now 750 - 2470. 2470/1.3=1900. 2470/1.52=1625. Those are the minimum rolls you need in order to experience a non-boosted result. And remember, boosted results get nothing out of critical damage boost because they are already experiencing a higher gain.

Crabbok

Yeah thats a very lengthy and detailed way of saying it.

All in all I think doubling the minimum on all bruiser CA's would be a good change. Too bad it's not within my power to do it.

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Harowen

I just think of it as the complement to crit rate. Sorcerers and predators and brawlers get a lot more out of crit rate than say, enchanters do (and whoever else has tight ranges). In exchange, tight range classes get a lot more out of crit boost.

But yeah, brawlers just need a good overhaul in general.