Crabbok

I've been having a discussion with a brigand about +Crit modifier. he loves it, I think it sucks. So I asked myself, "Self, Why do you think it sucks?" I set out to prove to my brig friend why I think Crit modifier sucks. After a few hour study, It seemed that crit modifier only sucks for me... and does NOT suck for him. I've got more studying to do, but all in all I think I've found a serious issue, which brings me to my point.

I've got a request for all your bruisers out there. Note, that if you have any melee crit bonus items, (IE TSO 6-Set), you list what your crit modifier is at. If you are lvl 80, and have access to a training dummy, here's what I want you to do:

1) Ensure you have no gear that will proc either Strength, or Ca damage of any kind. Changing your damage output mid fight would alter my study.

2) Record the maximum listed damage of Front Kick. This number should not change for the duration of this study.

3) If possible, try to have the highest melee crit you can have. It's ok if you downgrade gear in order to boost melee crit. I'm not judging you based on how much damage you deal.

4) Run Advanced Combat Tracker.

5) Kill 10 Training dummies using only 1 CA ---- Front Kick. Try to make sure these are all in a row, and they will be all recorded on the same zonewide. It will be easier for sorting purposes. Also, make sure that you DO NOT debuff the training dummy's mitigation at all.

6) Once finished, open up your ACT and go to the zonewide outgoing damage. This should just be you and your 10 Training dummy kills. Select Front Kick, so that you can view all of the hits.

7) Either screenshot that page, (Must be high quality enough to easily read the small numbers), or record the following:
-How many critical Front Kicks you had total
-Out of those, how many were Max Damage +1 (Refer to the original Max Damage you recorded earlier).
-How many of those were high-end hits, (IE Max damage x 1.3) or more, if you have crit bonus items.
- List all the values of damage dealt from front kick. (This part might be a pain in the butt)

8) Also be sure to include the normal Max Damage listed for Front Kick when you mouseover it.



Basicly, I've noticed that I either have really really terrible luck with crits, or that our class is broken, because it seems to me that about 60% of my crits are for max damage+1, which is the Minimum Crit, and after spending hours doing this, I didn't get a single crit that even came CLOSE to the high end of crits, (Max Damage x 1.3). My brigand friend tested one of his CAs (One that did NOT debuff physical mitigation) and his results were outrageous. He didn't have a single hit for the minimum crit, in fact 80% of his hits for on the very high end of the spectrum.


To any of you who can help I'll really appreciate it.

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Crabbok

Note: you can Autoattack if you want, I just wanted to specify that front kick should be the only CA used.

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gungo

Few issues it depends on the spread of the combat art.
For instance the larger the spread the more likely you will hit for max+1.
The flip side of this is Crit% is better for classes with larger spreads.
Crit bonus tends to benefit classes with smaller spread.

It would be good to note which combat art your friend was using.

Also dont forget crit modifer also benefits auto atk which is really were most of its benefit comes from. Since auto atk by itself is generally 40%+ of our dps.

This is the spread on my front kick 578-1735
I would need a roll of 1335-1735+ in order to roll more then max+1 on a 1.3x crit.

Stunning blow for a brig does 1769-2592 w same stats
he would need a roll of 1994-3593 in order to roll more then max +1 on a 1.3x crit.

Its a bit easier for him to hit a higher crit amount. It also has to do with the amount of the CA's damage.

Crabbok

Trying to understand you here... basicly your talking about the way the RNG calculates the damage.

I'll keep it simple... Lets say I have a CA that deals between 1, and 1000 damage. If it crits, it is essentially rolling a 1,300 sided dice, and counting any result that is lower than 1,001... as a 1,001. Sound correct?

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gungo

Its a 1-1000 die and any rolls below 770 hits for 1001 on a 1.3 crit.
770 x 1.3= 1001
771 x 1.3= 1002 (1002.3 but thats rounded down)

That is why you see most of your hits for max +1

Crabbok

Thanks for the clarification. If thats truly how it's done, It does not explain scout damage though, at least in the case of my brigand friend. He was using Blood rake (debuffs magic damage, but not physical), which had a range of 2867 - 4272, and out of about 6 consecutive hits, he had the following damage (he had I wanna say 22 crit bonus):
6885
6129
6063
4883
6778
5930

Now with a spread of over 1400, he did not ever once get the minimum crit, in fact nearly all of his crits were very close to the top end. It seem sto me that scouts and fighters might be using a different algorithm.

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Orochan

Could just be bad rolls?

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gungo

He should never get a minimum crit.
2867 x 1.52 = 4357
4357 should be his lowest hit ever.

Edit: 1.52 = 1.3(base crit) + .22 (crit bonus)

gungo

Lets go back to my front kick example.

If you also had 22% crit bonus

and a the spread of front kick for me is 578-1735

578 x 1.52 = 879 (878.56 but round up)

Or in other words your still going to hit for max +1 = 1736

Edit: Its also good to note the only thing that matters now with weapons now that players have or are close to max crit in raids is the high hit of a weapon. Also Bigger spreads tend to be a detriment now to weapons. As like in the case of bruisers with large damage spreads you end up hitting max+1 more often.

In tso the void knuckles is better dps then the fist of judgement in most cases. Not even counting the fact that I can use dps and +crushing moreso then the da/crit (I am already capped), but the void knuckles have a higher hit. I also like the fact I can adorn it w the riposte augment.

Couch

I wrote a program in matlab to calculate the result of min/max and crit modifier based on crit hit equation.

For example, I used the number in gungo's post, front kick, 578-1735.

With 1.3 crit multipler (standard) and 100% crit chance, the damage is 1.572 times of original damage (0% crit chance) in average.

With 1.4 crit multipler (standard + 6 set) and 100% crit chance, the damage is 1.6283 times of original damage in average.

The total damage increase from extra 10% crit bonus on front kick = 5% of original damage.

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