Can we raid tank? definitly, but what !? - Page 2

Corydonn · 06-30-2009, 01:43 AM

Do any of the Avatars really even have that much strikethrough?

Blanka · 06-30-2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch

Let's put tank aside, healers are also important. Without good healers, tank won't stay alive no matter which tank you are.

It's harder to heal brawlers up especially when brawlers are not well geared but as long as brawlers didn't get one shot, good healers can keep brawlers up.

Sometimes, the tank got owned is the problem of incompetent healers instead of tank.

LOL, that is an incredibly general and misleading statement. This thread isn't can we get healed the OP is asking if brawlers can raid tank. It is like saying we can't raid tank avatars unless our dps is good enough to kill the avatar.

Simple fact is Azraël can single target any killable mob in this game with his gear plain and simple.

Blanka · 06-30-2009, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corydonn

Do any of the Avatars really even have that much strikethrough?

I don't know that for sure, but my avoidance % is pretty consistent across the tougher raid mobs. I was told mobs strike through 25% of the time, but that was from I think Crabbok, I have no clue if that is true.

Rythus · 06-30-2009, 03:06 AM

I regularly tank Xebnok, zarrakon (adds and dragon on occasion), stalker trash, switch adds, offtank tythus, penta/ulta adds, probably more that im forgetting. have tanked switchmaster, kultak, some on gynok. usually tho for gynok our sk just grabs him and all adds and holds them for duration. Really though, with the right healer setup im sure i could do more, just havent really had the chance with our MT and sk usually taking the spot. Spikes hurt, but i dont spike too much, and usually have around 23.5k health or so in raid so it isnt a big issue generally

Couch · 06-30-2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanka

LOL, that is an incredibly general and misleading statement. This thread isn't can we get healed the OP is asking if brawlers can raid tank. It is like saying we can't raid tank avatars unless our dps is good enough to kill the avatar.

Simple fact is Azraël can single target any killable mob in this game with his gear plain and simple.

Incorrect. This thread is not just for OP. It's for bruisers or brawlers-Can WE raid tank?

I was saying that we need to have confidence to tank raid targets even if we got owned sometimes because it may not be our problem but healers.

Crabbok · 06-30-2009, 09:29 AM

The general population of EQ2 players seem to have a major distrust when it comes to brawlers tanking something hard. I do think that we as a population should try to convince the non-believers that we CAN tank harder content.

Hopefully next expansion they will deal with our spike damage a little more. There was something on a slide that mentioned a better approach to damage and defense... that statement was very vague though and I don't believe anyone asked about it specificly.

Novusod · 06-30-2009, 10:43 AM

Hardest thing I tanked was Thet-et-em and half the Switchmaster fight. I tried tanking Tythus three months ago and got pwned. Even though I had twice the crit mit as the competing plate tanks I would get spiked constantly. It is not so much others beleiving the bruiser can't tank but the actual bruiser players themselves that feel that way.

Azraël · 06-30-2009, 11:31 AM

I don't even tank thytus but when i'm within his melee range in offensive and he drops his physical AE it's bye bye Dolorian.
I occasionally tanked the naga in Tombs too when i wanted to just try out the mob by stealing aggro and keeping it on me, it's a quite easy mob to tank imho.
Now for strikethrough i had a "funny" experience yesterday in YIS...
When fighting Ykesha i got ported in one of those rooms and there's an epic that roams within it. I was with a templar so i rushed the mob and trained him while poping our AA tsunami to allow the guildie to get back to the fight asap.
I got owned in no time. So either i'm the dumbest retard and didn't know you have to face a mob to successfully deflect him when tsunami is on...OR... the mob did struckthrough me 2 times in a row. So if anyone has a clue on exaclty (or approximativly) which type or raid mob does have strikethrough and at what percentage i would appreciate the info.
On raids when tanking i run about 90-92% avoidance but when i get hit it hurts like shit on the hardest encounters. Do you have any way of greatly improving mitigation without ditching all your dps/aggro ? I noticed the miti proc on Wu's BP is quite good for that purpose, but is the avoidance proc working ? Plus, when on those hard fight when you tank some lethal target, do you rather go 6 pieces+good BP for increased mitigation or rather evil BP for 100% crit mit?
@Blanka & Couch: both of you are right, the original idea of the thread came from a personal need and interrogation, then bloomed into a possible share of useful info for everyone that reads the forum; this way people who are avatar geared or causal raiders can rely on someone else with similar gear to see what's possible, what is harder and in which conditions. So far both of you are answering with valuable answers, no matter if it's 100% what has been asked in the first place as long as it's useful info. I just wonder now what is our main difference in survivability monkVSbruisers.(meditative healing/mythical?)
@Obano: i also think there's psychologic factor in it. Not only your raid leader feels more confident with plate tank (logic?) but your healers, and for no apparent reason, seem to be more relaxed when a plate tank is on duty rather than a brawler. And i think that might not help us brawlers to take the initiative to say 'i'm tanking this shit' cause nobody trust in us.
The best example for me is that i automatically get assigned to tank adds or weaker target swarms instead of single target epic mobs. It's only when asking to switch positions that people realise that it's quite fine. Yesterday i tanked the assassin on Ykesha's encounter again with only an inqui in group.

Crabbok · 06-30-2009, 01:01 PM

You don't have to face a mob with our 100% deflection. our avoidance is 360 degrees. Mobs do strikethrough WAY too much though. Aeralik said it's 25% chance, and I told him it is way higher than that in reality.... But the only stuff you need to face the mob for is to riposte, otherwise it'd end up being a parry. Plate tanks can only shield block from the front.... so that is where the whole "You must face the mob" thing comes from... and besides, you want to be hitting the mobs right? might as well face him.

Another aspect with brawlers tanking is debuffs. If players have no confidence in us, they aren't putting 100% effort, because they've already given up in their heads. If this happens, players will be slow to debuff, and maintain critical debuffs. A properly debuffed mob is an easy mob to tank. It's not just healers than need to have faith in us... it's everyone.

Pantheron · 06-30-2009, 01:52 PM

Our monk has tanked pretty much everything bar ykesha,gynok and some avatars but he has pretty pimp gear.So that probably helps a fair bit.

I recall near the start of the expansion he would smacked around and die when picking up mobs.Not so much of an issue now with raid gear having been upgraded since then.

As far as brawlers go i think they can tank whatever content a plate tank does but they still need some loving on items.Aka that avatar BP needs fixing.