Bruiser Tanking and Boobs

Crabbok · 10-26-2009, 04:19 PM

In another thread a discussion started about brawler tanking, so I figured I'd make a new thread for a bruiser tanking discussion, and also we can talk about boobs... ya know, to keep this discussion different than the 500 other brawler tanking discussions we've had over the past year or 2.

So here is basically where I see us (Bruisers) in terms of tanking right now. Like always we CAN tank anything in the game, but are not ideal in most situations. We have a few advantages over other tanks, but all in all, many raids really don't "Need" a brawler.

Our biggest problem is our survivability at the moment. Only brawlers with the absolute BEST gear available are able to catch up to (And in very rare cases surpass) plate tanks in terms of mitigation. Strike-Through has completely ruined the entire concept of avoidance tanking. Brawlers are also the only type of tank with no independent Save vs Death.

Hate is also a large problem for us, especially now. AoE hate is almost always required to tank in TSO, and we only have 2 tools for AoE hate. Divide and Conquer is restricted to encounter, and is only temporary, and isn't available fast enough for us to rely upon. Aside of that we can hit temps (Chi, Knockout, Lycanthropic rage etc) and hit our AoEs, and hope that did enough damage to keep our AoE hate. Usually though it is not, and we are forced to tab target, and watch the Red Bars over mobs' heads to try to ensure we have hate.

Another hate issue is Mem-Wipes. (Let me add that I am really hoping this problem pretty much goes away next expansion). Our "Lock" abilities do not work in TSO, forcing us to completely loose aggro on mobs that mem-wipe. Sure, SOME mobs only drop you one hate position, but many, if not MOST, drop you all the way to the bottom of the hate list, forcing you to re-establish 24 hate positions. This mechanic was probably intended to encourage raids to bring extra fighters in raids, but instead they simply bring crusaders instead. SK and Paladin are MUCH more capable of recovering from a 24 hate position wipe than we are. We have to attack as much as we can, hit all of our rescues, (hoping they don't resist), and once we are high enough we can hit rescue and pray it gets us back on top. If it doesn't then we are screwed, and have to wait, hoping that our dps and hate transfers will give us the rest of our lost hate positions fast enough so more people don't die... then again if the mob kills enough mages and scouts... well then we will get aggro back eventually so I guess we can just simply wait it out.

What needs to happen?

Improve our avoid buff, make it so good that raids say "Dude we really should get a brawler in here!
We need some strikethrough prevention. An Immunity to Strikethrough would be excellent.
We need a Blue Rescue - Change Staggering blow to an Blue AoE and make it actually land on mobs!
Let Drag and DaC work on everything except for a few "Special Case" mobs, like Leviathan.
Fix god damned Melee Hit Rates when we are in Defensive... actually just fix em all around

And last but not least - Boobs!

Novusod · 10-26-2009, 06:04 PM

Is what we really need is a dev that plays a bruiser. If they fix an issue like strike through the mobs in TSF with will only find another way to wreck avoidance tanking. Someone has to be on the front lines of development to speak up for us otherwise we will just be fixing last expansion's issues and never be a viaable raiding class.

On subject of boobs next time you go to fan faire Crabbok hire some hookers.

Sky666 · 10-26-2009, 07:54 PM

Agree totally, amusing trying tank enraged tuskers when he drops you to zero, then have D+C miss, both tso rescues miss, finality clicky resist and then control hate for 1 position :P

Next xpac will be make or break for me, played a bruiser since launch and took most stuff on the chin, but its getting silly now.

malos · 10-26-2009, 08:19 PM

Well I have read on the official forum that taunts and survivability issues will be addressed for brawlers. So that will be a huge plus for all brawlers in general. Strike though and how a brawler is double attacked will be addressed also. Read it when you have time.

For blue aoe's I would agree that staggering blow should be an aoe. Since bruisers are classified as being the aoe brawler it only makes sense. Also since rock skin is totally useless for a bruiser that it too should be revised into a blue aoe for the bruiser class. Manhandle should become an encounter aoe proc as well. If this would happen bruisers would be standing in a great position for being a viable tank.

Hit rates in defensive stance should have just as much a chance to hit as offensive stance but with less power if defensive stance is being used.

Sardonis · 10-26-2009, 09:01 PM

Our main basic problems are double attack/strike-through/aggro balance. Apparently all 3 of these are being addressed for the next expansion. It all just depends on how they will be implemented. Seeing as how Aeralik hardly has any clue about tanks, let alone brawlers, I don't have much faith in having it done properly.

We have a ton of useless abilities that need to be changed. I glanced at some list on the official forums that pointed out some of them, but also had ways to fix them. No offense, but I don't think I have ever seen a well rounded improvement idea ever posted. I pretty much gave up trying to get things changed/fixed after RoK beta and Aeralik not doing a damn thing and after I quit at the end of RoK. Still, it's too bad he basically never posts to get feedback on anything so nothing will be properly done.

We're not AoE tanks. Maybe they want to classify us as that, but Savage Assault and D&C cannot even come close to comparing to Open Wounds and SK's AoE's...

Another huge problem that needs to be addressed is our auto attack/weapons/hit rate. Hopefully we can get out of this 2.5 delay weapons sink after mythical's get abolished in the next expansion, but still the even bigger problem is our auto attack being the same as every other fighter. We receive no benefit for being the offensive fighters who can't use shields and get no compensation for this. Also need some help for hit rates when we're in front of the mob, because that is one of our huge downfalls for holding aggro.

As for aggro, well straight threat increases are basically useless. We also get nothing to get us even close to the top of the list after a mem-wipe like pretty much all plate tanks do. The only things we get that are worth a damn on epic's in the expansion are the exact same things every other fighter gets. Even if Staggering Blow/D&C/Drag work on epic's in the next expansion we still need more to help with aggro while in defensive stance. Again about hit rates, we can almost never actually be in defense stance with how horrible they are.

There's a lot of ways on how things can be fixed and balanced, but only a couple of proper ways to have it done correctly.

Inhumanus · 10-27-2009, 09:03 AM

I have to admit that my Bruiser is not my main and only 73, so apologies if some/all these ideas are not helpful.

Strikethrough - grant the brawler a passive ability to reduce damage and crit damage from this ability; I was thinking about 25%. Not as good as a Zerker, but would always be up.

Taunts - Add a buff that last 6 seconds for S/T, 10 seconds for the green taunt that increases threat for every auto attack and CA (2000 ish??) as well as increasing crush/pierce/slash by 1 point per level for the duration.

Blue AoE's - Add a threat increase for the brawler, reduction for others (~ 25%) for about 10 seconds.

Blue auto attack - Change it to use weapon damage.

I am having to rush a bit. That is all for now....

Xcrucio/Inhumanus
Nektulous

Staxx · 10-27-2009, 03:05 PM

good topic, good ideas..... but where are the ( o Y o )

only time i use my defensive stance is when i'm tanking/holding the adds on the Pentaclypse(sp) fight... other then that i have to say its garbage for the hit-rate problem discussed above.

Orochan · 10-27-2009, 03:30 PM

Gosta Dirk · 10-27-2009, 03:38 PM

More boobs guys..
We want pictures tbh

I agree that there are some issues that should be adressed, but I don't thikn the list is a long as many people would like it to be, and I would not think that there are any gamebreaking changes on it either..
My wish is not to be the next SK, I see no need to be OP at all, all I ask for is balace..
My Bruiser is an avoidance tank, so let me avoid, don't start making new stuff like strikethrough

So, I get to use AA's and spells to drag mobs and force them to target me.. But when mobs are imune to it what good are those spells then ?

Sometimes when I tank I get hit REAL hard, I think to myself, ok, maybe I should not use offensive stance for this, and swap to middle stance.. .. I still get beaten pretty hard and swap to Defensive, NOW I can survive anything, cause I will be last man standing trying to get aggro back from all others.. All my hits will miss, my rescues wont go in, anything I try is a complete waste, and I might as well FD and hope that some priest gave me a Feather so I can res after the mob killed everyone else

Oh yea and Boobs

Staxx · 10-27-2009, 06:27 PM

its true.... the clip never seems to go any further... LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gosta Dirk