+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Player versus Tard
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    632
    Character
    Guild
    Server

    Default Dummy HPS comparisons with T1 raid Gear

    I've wondered myself, so I thought I'd compare the single target dummy hps of the different specs for comparison. The only problem is it doesn't include procs of course, but you can calculate the expected value fairly easily.

    Warden

    Spec: Soul Tree Calculator: Warden (51) / Sentinel (10) / Cabalist (5) :: Rift :: ZAM

    HPS - 1232.44

    Expected value with overflow (25 procs) = 13750 extra healing

    Expected HPS - 1277

    Note: I made the mistake of following a forum guide on the man forums which said not to include healing spray. After adding it to my rotation, my hps jumped up 60... it'd be nice if at least one guide wasn't written by an idiot.

    Sentinel #1

    Spec - Soul Tree Calculator: Sentinel (51) / Inquisitor (12) / Purifier (3) :: Rift :: ZAM

    HPS - 1394

    Note: Decent aoe healing and mana return. No proc'd inceases to hps.

    Sentinel #2

    Spec - http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00jdo.EREtfstsR.VLz.V

    HPS - 1670

    Purifer-Sentinel #1

    Spec - Soul Tree Calculator: Purifier (34) / Sentinel (32) / Warden (0) :: Rift :: ZAM

    HPS - 918

    Expected value - 99 casts of restorative flame adding 853 shield per cast and 831 ward every 30 secs.

    Expected HPS - 1222

    Purifier-Sentinel #2

    Spec - http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...zqz.V.E0Eo0czc

    HPS - 1083

    Expected value - 99 casts of restorative flame adding 894 shield per cast and 831 ward 13 casts.

    Expected HPS - 1409


    Purifier

    Spec - Soul Tree Calculator: Purifier (51) / Sentinel (10) / Cabalist (5) :: Rift :: ZAM

    HPS - 821

    Expected value - 75 restorative flames adding 895 per cast = 67125, 29 ticks of spiritual conflagion adding 831 per tick = 24049, 6 ward of the ancestors adding 831 = 4986, rite of the ancestors 15 hits of 831 = 12465, caregivers 9 hits for 337 = 3033.

    Expected hps - 1187


    I dont have a lot of experience with purifier, and I probably made more then 1 mistake. I'll recheck some numbers. If someone has more experience with purifier then I'd love some input. If you feel a spec should be used for comparison but hasn't been, let me know and I'll add it. Either I'm doing something terribly wrong, or puriifer is very low hps, even with wards (healing debuffs aside). In a real situation a lot of those wards would overwrite each other and hps should be less.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    233
    Character
    Chauser
    Guild
    permafrost
    Server
    cataclysm

    Default Re: Dummy HPS comparisons with T1 raid Gear

    I dont think ACT tracks shields (wards) unless some newer version of the rift plugin has fixed this. Therefore the shields from the purifier will not be counted. Also beware the buff icon will inaccurately describe your shield values (doesn't include the increase from disciple of flame (i.e. it underreports the shield value if you spec > 36 points in purifier))

    I'm not sure what your healing rotations were. But using a healing dummy could overestimate your true HPS from HI/LI combo given that a good portion of the time the LI hot is not the full 30% of the HI value (if you overheal with HI the LI hot will be 0). Using a healing dummy you'll always get a full LI (excluding over-writing of course). Overhealing is of course an inherent problem with warden specs as well.

    And you are correct. Shields (wards) from purifier do NOT crit. I wish they did. Purifier gets less attractive as you get more and more crit. Getting max hps from sent/warden builds require more crit stacking (actually a ratio of SP:crit of 0.6 was calculate as the best ratio). But for pure purifier builds you get max hps from SP stacking. The sp/crit emphasis between the different builds makes pure hps testing on a healing dummy inaccurate unless you are changing your gear/adorns appropriately between tests.

    You can argue that the shield from purifier are extremely powerful since they are 100% effective vs. hots/ direct heals being subjected to overhealing issues. Similar to wards >>> reactives >> hots issues in eq2.

    The max aoe healing i've ever achieved in raid was using a senticar spec during the 2nd and 3rd named (i think) in GP. Spamming the justicar aoe heal 4 times after those aoe's gave nice numbers and occasional agro but it isn't a tank healing spec and i'd never use it in a heroic dungeon.

    I'm not in game atm (and haven't logged in for a week) but i think my favorite pve healing spec was sent/purifier/inqui 33/21/12 or so.

    Chauser - Troub
    Enoax - Inquis
    Otoru - Pally
    Iniigo - Brig
    Charmy - Illy
    Bigrock - Channeler

  3. #3
    Player versus Tard
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    632
    Character
    Guild
    Server

    Default Re: Dummy HPS comparisons with T1 raid Gear

    I'm drunk so I hope what I'm writting makes sense.

    My cleric is a reroll so I'm behind the game as far as best specs are concerned. In the same way someone could say 11 nightblade and I'd know exact where the points would be spend, I can't say the same for cleric. I thought incorrectly that bard would be a great pve endgame/pvp healer from playing beta when cadence effected everyone in raid.

    Can you post the spec you mean? I've often thought about 12 justicar myself for healing purposes... best mana tap in the game combined with the best aoe heal in the game. That's a pretty cheap investment for getting so much (with the only downside being you need to melee for 10 secs when tapping, and have the focus/hit to be able to proc the tap).

    I don't know if purifier shields scale with crit... I'm just using the UI and scrolling over the buff icon on the dummy. It could be they do but I can't tell from a dummy parse, and don't use purifier to be able to tell from playing the build. If someone does know I'd love to hear it, I always assume tooltips are dirty liars.

    How does purifier inaccurately show wards as well? I am testing on alpha so with 1.3. The ward amount shows the 1.3 amount, so I can see it increasing. Is there a larger increase then what's shown? 32 purifier shows about 800 per restorative flame, 51 shows 900... so while it's a differnce, the amount is underwhelming.

    With HI/LI, the hot gets overwritten. The strength of 51 sentinel (the spec I play in T2s) is big crits. On test with full raid gear I think the base is 2800, with 5600 crits. I don't know why the combination of inquisitor + sentinel makes crits give over double the base damge, but it does. It might be a logorithmic increase vs a arithmetic increase.... so + 50% * 20% * 20%... thought I'm only guessing. All I know is the crits are huge.

    Warden, I'm surprised, is a great MT healer. Sure it's a pain tracking soothing stream, but with mods coming out that might become easier. Usually people have wardens focus on raid healing which they are also good at too... but if they do focus on MT healing, they look equally capable as other healing souls.

    This might be why the devs first boosted warden, and are now boosting puriifier. Maybe puriifer has always been weak, it's just their testers are further ahead of the curve then players... which makes a lot of sense seeing as how it's someone's job to test this crap in their game.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    233
    Character
    Chauser
    Guild
    permafrost
    Server
    cataclysm

    Default Re: Dummy HPS comparisons with T1 raid Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskiab View Post
    Can you post the spec you mean? I've often thought about 12 justicar myself for healing purposes... best mana tap in the game combined with the best aoe heal in the game. That's a pretty cheap investment for getting so much (with the only downside being you need to melee for 10 secs when tapping, and have the focus/hit to be able to proc the tap).

    My senticar spec has a few abilities I took just for pvp'ing (parry and damage reduction) so it's probably not the best for pve healing. You can probably get away with just 11 points. I do like repreive. It is the biggest single target heal in game afaik.

    Soul Tree Calculator: Sentinel (40) / Justicar (26) :: Rift :: ZAM

    Soul Tree Calculator: Inquisitor (41) / Justicar (25) :: Rift :: ZAM is my main pvp spec that I occasionaly use in pve for 'support'.

    I don't know if purifier shields scale with crit... I'm just using the UI and scrolling over the buff icon on the dummy. It could be they do but I can't tell from a dummy parse, and don't use purifier to be able to tell from playing the build. If someone does know I'd love to hear it, I always assume tooltips are dirty liars.

    Shields get NO benefit from crit. There is NO scaling.

    How does purifier inaccurately show wards as well? I am testing on alpha so with 1.3. The ward amount shows the 1.3 amount, so I can see it increasing. Is there a larger increase then what's shown? 32 purifier shows about 800 per restorative flame, 51 shows 900... so while it's a differnce, the amount is underwhelming.

    This may have been fixed in a patch. But when i was testing a full purifier spec (pre 1.2) i noticed the tooltip and buff icon did NOT reflect the bonus from disciple of flame (extra 5% + 2% for each point over 36). But when you cast restorative flame and pulled a mob I would absorb the correct amount of damage with the shield. That is what i was referring to but this information may be dated as I care not to test it again.

    With HI/LI, the hot gets overwritten. The strength of 51 sentinel (the spec I play in T2s) is big crits. On test with full raid gear I think the base is 2800, with 5600 crits. I don't know why the combination of inquisitor + sentinel makes crits give over double the base damge, but it does. It might be a logorithmic increase vs a arithmetic increase.... so + 50% * 20% * 20%... thought I'm only guessing. All I know is the crits are huge.

    From any testing I've done with the 40% 'crit bonus' from having both inquis and sent my crits were 100% reliably baseheal*1.9. When I would hit ~ 5k (my gear is shit so I usually get ~ 2k noncrits) it was because of a restorative flame proc. Not sure why you're seeing over 2x crit values in the absence of restorative flame, bard healing buff etc. Maybe something else has been tweaked on PTS to give you such big crits /shrug.


    Warden, I'm surprised, is a great MT healer. Sure it's a pain tracking soothing stream, but with mods coming out that might become easier. Usually people have wardens focus on raid healing which they are also good at too... but if they do focus on MT healing, they look equally capable as other healing souls.

    I was never impressed with warden except for in pvp pre-1.2. But i'm biased against hots after playing eq2 for so long.

    This might be why the devs first boosted warden, and are now boosting puriifier. Maybe puriifer has always been weak, it's just their testers are further ahead of the curve then players... which makes a lot of sense seeing as how it's someone's job to test this crap in their game.

    Soul Tree Calculator: Purifier (33) / Sentinel (28) / Cabalist (5) :: Rift :: ZAM
    fluxions posted this spec (somethign similar to it anyways). I used it for along time. I have since switched to a 'crit' build with sent/inquis/purifier. I should probably give warden a try again though I think post 1.3 heavy purifier specs will be more attractive.

    Chauser - Troub
    Enoax - Inquis
    Otoru - Pally
    Iniigo - Brig
    Charmy - Illy
    Bigrock - Channeler

  5. #5
    Player versus Tard
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    632
    Character
    Guild
    Server

    Default Re: Dummy HPS comparisons with T1 raid Gear

    Updated the thread to post your build - it's a large jump in hps. I'm gonig to have to retest purifier again... I think I was casting 51 point abilities that are hps losses. I'll repost the hps after I've messed more with it.

    I knew spell power bonuses are nice, but that's a huge difference.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    158
    Character
    Guild
    Server

    Default Re: Dummy HPS comparisons with T1 raid Gear

    Can easily get over 7k crits with healing invocation combined with the 80% increase to heal from warden tree(forget name atm). It's every 45 seconds but still its a fantastic ow shit for heals.

  7. #7
    Player versus Tard
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    632
    Character
    Guild
    Server

    Default Re: Dummy HPS comparisons with T1 raid Gear

    Tweaked the sentinel build.... what a difference.

    Looking at it now, I think any proper single target healer build should have 5 cab and 10 sent... it's a must. I'm seeing a huge jump in hps from those points no matter what the build is. Inquisitor extra crits are boosting the hps by a ton too...

    Looking at the stats, I go from 1275 to 1402 spell power with both talents and 51 point bulids giving extra mods from sp is getting a big boost.

  8. #8
    Player versus Tard
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    632
    Character
    Guild
    Server

    Default Re: Dummy HPS comparisons with T1 raid Gear

    Damn, check this out:

    Your COMPLETE healing BIS resource: spreadsheet customized to YOUR spec and stats..

    Someone made a spreadsheet of all builds and hps comparisons. Makes this thread sort of redundant, though it doesn't include 51 sent builds... which makes sense anyways. Unless you're rolling with a rogue tank in a hp spec, it would mostly be overhealing anyways, regardless of potential hps output.

    Thread closed... I'm back on my rogue and haven't played with cleric builds for a while anyways.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Sponsor Ads