New Coercer, charm issue... - Page 3

mathew · 02-02-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revel

Master charm, regardless of its level, is always better.

Your charmed pet's strength is determined only by the master's quality (apprentice, adept, master). It does not matter which charm or which level, simply the quality. A charmed pet from the master level 2 pet is equal in strength to a charmed pet from the master level 74 charm.

Resistability (whether it lands, or breaks or not) is the same.

The only difference is the duration of the charm. Higher level charms have much higher total durations.

Thank you very much.

Dragonmoon · 02-03-2008, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhoram

The melee line for coercers is more supplementary than anything. I only used it for a little while, and found myself not bothering to melee since it was just easier to let the pet beat on mobs and use reactives. If you want a good melee caster, i suggest you look at one of the melee priests. Inquisitors, Wardens and Mystics can turn themselves into pretty decent meleeing debuffing healing guys.

Last time I checked, been awhile.... Crushing 118, Piercing 125. Oh yeah, I melee alot

. Can't find any reason to get close enough to the mob when soloing to actually hit it, mage pet FTW!!. I do melee mobs that don't have a 360 aoe in raid zones though.

Lorant · 02-04-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavion

Eh, not exactly, it's only class defining if you mostly solo with that toon.

To me, class defining is a chanter who can lock down 4 or 5 adds before the party wipes....or anyone dies at all, for that matter.

I always have buffs up in when in groups instead of leaving concentration open for charm, because it's just overall better for the group, and you should really be focusing on crowd control anyways if you are in a tough instance, especially like the ones in Kunark.

The only time I have ever used a pet in a group is if it's not a full group and we are mainly casters who need a tank pet, or it's a boss fight like Sandstorm where you know no matter what you are going to get a certain number of adds, and can charm one to your advantage after locking them down, just so you have one less mezz to refresh during the fight. Tactics, tactics, tactics.

Just a fair warning, don't get too comfortable with Mastercrafted gear. Mastercrafted is only better than quested gear at certain level ranges, and sometimes more expensive than similar quested items. And it definitely won't be better than anything you find in an ornate or exquisite chest for much longer (that is very rare). You definitely don't find Mastercrafted full sets better than combinations of quested items/named drops after level 58-ish. In fact, the higher level you get, the less the Mastercrafted seems to be worth. And even now, I'm sure there are several items you could look up on the internet and go hunt for which would be a huge upgrade, if you're into that sort of challenge.

Also, 95% Masters? If this is your main and pretty much only toon you plan on playing right now, then I will say grats on that. Me personally, I have many alts... but even so, I don't spend very much money on certain items at all from 0-50, just to save up for truly good stuff. I hardly ever take anything more than adept I's for my spells at lower levels, unless it's one of the must-have spells. (I'm not advising that same tactic for anyone else leveling a main toon, I just do that on my alts because I have a routine down now when leveling, and I pretty much know where to go and when for fast XP).

You'll find the 40's are kind of an odd level range. Actually, since EoF it's not as much so, but it still requires some thought as to where to plan to quest, what gear to go after, etc. At lvl 52 you can get really good mastercrafted gear and that is pretty much the way to go (for certain pieces) until you get to Kingdom of Sky zones, but until 52, you really should quest/hunt for gear imho (Heroic SF quests have some great items for upper 30's/lower 40's).

The other part about the 40's is the zones and quests. Everfrost and Permafrost are pretty much built for groups, as well as the Temple of Cazic Thule. Sometimes it's good to skip around a bit and come back to certain zones, get all those low to mid 30's quests out of the way before you hit the higher ones in Rivervale and Steamfont/Klak'anon. Then after you do those, try to find groups in EF/PF/CT. By the time you hit up all those, you should be roughly in your upper 40's, and good to start doing the lower end quests in Sinking Sands, Lesser Faydark, and Lavastorm... although a few quests in LS can sometimes be a pain for casters without at least a small group.

Perfect point, i am finding that spells are getting more expensive now. I will be AD3, as long as I buy the rare. But for instance last night, the new Awe was Master for 24g where the AD1 was 90g, someone F-ed up and I thank them

But for now, yes I have been able to afford Masters everywhere except for the the group mez I just replaced with a Master.

I hit 39 last night and will look at your advice going forward. I personally find questing and killing for gear much more fun than buying it outright, thanks.

Trepan · 02-04-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revel

Master charm, regardless of its level, is always better.

Your charmed pet's strength is determined only by the master's quality (apprentice, adept, master). It does not matter which charm or which level, simply the quality. A charmed pet from the master level 2 pet is equal in strength to a charmed pet from the master level 74 charm.

Resistability (whether it lands, or breaks or not) is the same.

The only difference is the duration of the charm. Higher level charms have much higher total durations.

True, up to a point. Read the description of the spell in the examine window. You'll see that "Resistability increases for mobs higher than level X". So, a t4 master will get resisted a bit more by T8 mobs. I try to master every other level. My T7 master charm is rocking fine for T8 and I won't have to upgrade until I start facing mobs > lvl 86 (ie: next expansion).

Senelin · 02-04-2008, 06:48 PM

Charm spells don't have that "resistability increases for mobs higher than" dialogue.

Hesster · 02-05-2008, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revel

Master charm, regardless of its level, is always better.

Your charmed pet's strength is determined only by the master's quality (apprentice, adept, master). It does not matter which charm or which level, simply the quality. A charmed pet from the master level 2 pet is equal in strength to a charmed pet from the master level 74 charm.

Resistability (whether it lands, or breaks or not) is the same.

The only difference is the duration of the charm. Higher level charms have much higher total durations.

Duration isn't the only thing. Remember that the hp/power regen for the pet is faster with higher level charm.

On a side note, when soloing with charm, what spells are most useful to have up with the 2 concentration slots you have left? I've been casting enraging demeanor and impetus on the mob.

Revel · 02-05-2008, 10:21 AM

Aye, I totally forgot about the HP and Power regens, but since they're out of combat, I never found them very useful. About 90 health regen and 50 power regen out of combat is relatively small when most mobs have 10-13k health at the 70+ level, and I don't know how useful it is at the lower levels. There's a natural regen as well, so it's only a tiny bit on top of that.

As far as the concentration slots, for me, it depends. I always cast ED and then Link on myself. For a caster mob, I'll cast Signet, but for a melee mob, I buff it with Impetus.

Trepan · 02-06-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anachronomicon

Charm spells don't have that "resistability increases for mobs higher than" dialogue.

I'll be damned. You're right.

Woot for charm! And I learned something today, so I can call the day a success and go to bed.

Xavion · 02-10-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revel

Master charm, regardless of its level, is always better.

Your charmed pet's strength is determined only by the master's quality (apprentice, adept, master). It does not matter which charm or which level, simply the quality. A charmed pet from the master level 2 pet is equal in strength to a charmed pet from the master level 74 charm.

Resistability (whether it lands, or breaks or not) is the same.

The only difference is the duration of the charm. Higher level charms have much higher total durations.

I have heard this forever, believed it, tested it, told people the same... but there is one part of that which cannot really and truly be affirmed by players. The whole part about chance to break is really still up in the air.

First off, this cannot be tested, if it really is a random-chance-to-break thing. You could compare a lower Master and a higher adept III for that and never really come up with accurate data. If it turns out that it's actually a higher chance to break the longer the pet is charmed (as I have long suspected it still is), then it would be true that higher level adpet III's are better than lower level Master's in that regard... and that is more important to some Coercers than others, depending on the type of pet being used and for what purpose.

Just because something isn't in a spell description, it doesn't mean it isn't true. They don't always put every detail we'd like in each spell description, just take a look at some temp/dumbfire pet spells. Do you really honestly believe the devs would allow us a level 40-ish Master charm that works better in every single way possible than a top-tier adpet III without there being even a small consequence? I never have bought that for a second. I need actual proof.

I currently use the adpet III charm most the time, unless I am using a caster pet, then I switch to the Master for better spell damage, but that is about the only time I will use it. The adept III hardly ever breaks on me, but then again my subjugation is through the roof, so... /shrug.

Tiermes · 02-10-2008, 06:34 PM

hmm..on my server (russian localized client version) charm DOES have the "resistability increases on mobs of lvl x and higher". Is this a localisation bug? When was this removed frome coercer charm?