Revel

The major problem is, illusionists now control their groups power as good or better than I can control my own group's power due to their epic proc, which is up often and gives their group members 900 power each time it procs. Thus, I won't ever need to feed an illusionist' group.

That significantly lowers the usefulness of the group mana flow portion of this weapon.

Oropher

Yes, thats correct, i should have said "if 2-3 chanters" in a raid, not just coercers. And yes, if illy's can do what we do, nearly, but can WAY out dps us, then why have a coercer? For hate! For TS! And if timed just right, with other short-term buffs, Tash can make the illy's dps SkyRocket out of control!
1 illy and 1 coercer > 2 illy's

Harowen

So my role is to make the illusionist look better? I'm thrilled.

Mendanbar

Most coercers don't really get to use their hate abilities really;

who needs TS when you have a monk?

and Tashiana helps you 2 alone, the illy's buffs help add way more dps than your tash does

this is why coercers (and their epic) need a huge upping :P

Senelin

Tash helps anyone in a troub group. PoTM does mental damage. Also Tandem does mental damage I believe.

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Mendanbar

Which are both so much of a bonus that coercers regularly get invited to the mage group... oh wait

Harowen

I bet if Tashiania was debuff all magical resistance instead of debuff mental resistance only that we'd see an increase in desirability.

Thieves Guilded to 6500 or so for 13s of a magical dispatch? Yeah that'd bring some value, not sure if it'd be enough though.

Illuminator

Now that would be interesting.

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Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve.

Mendanbar

Not really, most magical debuffs are already up high as hell anyway... besides, I think you're getting out of the point of your class to worry more about debuffs. Other classes have primarily debuffing roles, Coercers need to ADD to others as an enchanter to come even close to balancing themselves out against an illusionist.

Oropher

iily's do more dps, we do more utility (utility specifically being spells/abilities that are not "tank-type", "heal-type" or "dps-type")
And thats the fundamental difference between the two classes.
If you add more dps to the coercer, without adding more dps to the illy, then are degrading the differences between the two classes.
As far as mana regen: Chanters mana regen, thats part of our job. And illy's do it nearly as good as coecers, but not quite as well. And on long fights, we are 3 or 4 times better with mana regen than illy's (because of our channeling)
We already provide Tons of hate for tanks, asking for more of that is useless. SoE wont give it to us because SoE wants it so mobs have a good chance at attacking someone other than the tank.
Asking for more subj is futile, most of us dont have a problem with mez or charm. Back-up gear when needed ftw. And besides, when needed to mez or charm, we can just go to our AA mirror, and increase our subj by immense perportions.
Asking for more disruption (on epic weapon, or any other class specific item) really wont help much for the best of us, because we dont have a problem with resists.
So, when i analize our epic weapon, i find it not near as good as the other class's epics. However, im at a loss as to what to suggest to change it.
Yes, coercer seems to be a die'ing class. In relation to the numbers of other classes, we are few and far between.
We are more utility and less dps than illy's. What we need is more useful utility spells. With the note of: "More useful utility abilitys/spells used in a RAID."

For future notice to SoE who reads these ......charming an epic, with realistic limits, would put us as a wanted class again.
Or make puppetmaster EXACT copies of what we cast it on, just smaller, and a scaled down dps/abilities. (We could use it to put a 10 sec stun/stifle on Pawbuster. Or, on Drusella, it could be a necromantic orb that heals our puppets for 4.3k. On other mobs it could call forth minions [yes, our puppets could have scaled down pets].)
Also, making our hate xfer a buff that could be casted on any Raid member would solve tons of issuses coercers have with this class. Give us a second hate spell....say, 8% hate xfer and 8% increase in hate (raid-wide, single target buff).