Illusionist mythical - Page 3

Vash · 02-14-2008, 04:27 PM

to top it all off illusionists are complaining like crazy how much they hate their mythical and think it should be made stronger...

Pinski · 02-14-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vash

to top it all off illusionists are complaining like crazy how much they hate their mythical and think it should be made stronger...

No they aren't. Only the retarded ones are.

Linyen · 02-14-2008, 06:00 PM

and sadly only the retarded coercers are saying ours is super duper good.

twats.

destriel · 02-14-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revel

I definitely agree that they could have given us a better balance of a dps/utility weapon, because what we got is a lowest-of-the-mages weapon self-dps wise with arguable utility, but I can't say that the illusionist epic in particular is so great and that we got the shaft.

d00d.. revel... you're a respected member of the coercer community and a real nice guy.. and nothing personal, but this statement is utterly retarded... coercers got pwned in the face YET AGAIN...

do you work for soe? coercer relations department?

buttfucked class is buttfucked...

Revel · 02-14-2008, 07:45 PM

You guys are right, after sleeping and thinking it over. I should sleep more often.

I retract all my dumbass statements about the other epics and particularly the illusionist epic but I'll leave them up there rather than delete them. At least they serve as discussion points and a reminder that I am retarded (once in a while).

Our class's strengths and role were not and never have been well defined , which was the problem that I had been arguing about for a long time, as you can read from my various other utility classes>us posts. The epic was probably what should have fixed that, but its abilities still leave us without a well defined role. We're not good for the mt group, we're not good for the mage group, we're not good for the melee group, at least not worthy of taking another utility's spot.

Anyway I apologize to you guys for my dumb statements.

Duress · 02-14-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revel

I respect your opinion Duress, but I can't totally agree with your logic.

1) The personae: the illusionist gets more personal dps through personae, where we can give the same amount of dps to an MT but we have none ourselves. I'd think these skills are at least equal as the dps amounts are the same, although ours has the possible bonus of offering the mt/ot more aggro. Depending on group setups it would be more useful or less useful, for sure, but increasing a fighter's taunts by 66% sounds good to me.

Take a typical fight named in vp. You can't joust Druusk or Nexona, pets take lava damage, so nothing on Taskmaster. Travenro's ae's are avoidable but pretty much impossible to place your pet in the place you want. Even Ekron adds have that frontal ae. So that's not all the named in vp, and it's only one zone, but over half is a decent chunk.

2) Mana flow: Definitely situational at best, but it's the same argument you have for illusionist gear, except across the entire raid. The entire raid could wear full heal/dps/tank/whatever gear without having to focus on power gear. So an entire raid can wear better gear and not have to be concerned about power while you're power-healing a group with 60% every 58 seconds. Now, being a power healer wasn't what people signed up for, but power regeneration is important and this offers you one way to control other groups in the raid, something that we couldn't do well or at all before.

3) Being in a melee group: Maybe it looks way better to us than to them since they already have uber buffs and we're being left behind bout that. But missing out a troub is more than missing out potm. Aria, plus the 10% base damage on the troub epic, does much more than one troub's potm zonewide. If we got this buff though, we could what, toss out more Peaceful Link? I'm more jealous of them having tandem in general rather than specific issues regarding the epic's buff, and totally more jealous of the bard weapons in general.

I definitely agree that they could have given us a better balance of a dps/utility weapon, because what we got is a lowest-of-the-mages weapon self-dps wise with arguable utility, but I can't say that the illusionist epic in particular is so great and that we got the shaft.

1. The thing is, is it probably wouldn't be the same at the end of the day. I was making a conservative estimate. On top of that, the hate our buff could theoretically bring will in no way match what a swashbuckler can give the tank. It just won't. This is not a buff that makes tanks swoon. This is a novelty, at best, like that warrior set.

And VP mobs are highly scripted and do wonky things to just about everyone's dps. But I'm not sure why you think they'd die so easily on Ekron. The raid should be standing so they aren't getting hit by that frontal, and then OTs should be turning those adds, and even then, you could be taking care of the small groups that spawn. On top of which, pets don't take environment damage like you appear to be suggesting. Pretty sure lava, falling, kbs, etc. don't affect them at all.

2. I don't know that many people in my raid are actually wearing the power-proc'ing gear like a mage typically does. They rely on power roots, status signets, tinker items, manastone, hearts, shards, obligatory bard, etc. It's like Sony wanted to fix something that wasn't actually that broken? (and then "broke" VM for us in the end)

3. I know grouping with a troub isn't the same as sharing a raid with one. And while they definitely got a desirable melee buff, I don't see the huge rush to take the raid's one illusionist and stick it with scouts as you're suggesting. Rather, I see a rush to get a SECOND illusionist. Which means you'll still have that one reaping all the benefits of a mage group, and the other still doing better than we can by providing actually desirable melee buffs (utility) and having the ability to throw a pet at the mob w/o concentration that's guaranteed to do more than our dumbfire (dps).

I remember in another thread you made a flippant remark about illusionists having to endure being bugged for buffs all the time. And I thought to myself, "Wait, how is being desired and valued a BAD thing?"

(Although I can always understand one's reluctance to subject themselves to what invariably turns into a dps circle jerk? ;))

But yeah, at the end of the day, I still think we got the shaft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revel

You guys are right, after sleeping and thinking it over. I should sleep more often.

I retract all my dumbass statements about the other epics and particularly the illusionist epic but I'll leave them up there rather than delete them. At least they serve as discussion points and a reminder that I am retarded (once in a while).

Our class's strengths and role were not and never have been well defined , which was the problem that I had been arguing about for a long time, as you can read from my various other utility classes>us posts. The epic was probably what should have fixed that, but its abilities still leave us without a well defined role. We're not good for the mt group, we're not good for the mage group, we're not good for the melee group, at least not worthy of taking another utility's spot.

Anyway I apologize to you guys for my dumb statements.

I doubt anyone will hold it against you.

The next step is to mass petition?!

Twiztd · 02-14-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destriel

do you work for soe? coercer relations department?

wow i was unaware that SOE had any department pertaining to coercers???

and even if for some crazy reason they fix our epic...

soe never listens to raid coercers... soooo it will probably just get more fucked up then it is right now.... oh well...

Linyen · 02-15-2008, 02:51 AM

if it does get fixed lets keep aeralik away from it because hes the one that made up the original puppetmaster and then changed it to the new "improved" puppetmaster...uhhh huh.

lyniegenie · 02-15-2008, 06:59 AM

Just in case some of us didn`t know

other than the 'Free" pet, illusionist have a dumbfire pet spell as
part of their regular DPS arsenal as well

>> Lvl 73 Construct of Rationality'

which I believe is doing more DPS than our underpowered puppets

And also to compare our lvl 80 special >>

Doppledanger = A pet illusion that will take on appearance of friend and absorb damage for friend. Upgrades increase the number of hits and damage absorbed.

I myself have no idea how well its working, and alot of illusionists are complaining about the spell being useless or broken, but if it ever get fixed this is a pretty useful spell.

agressiv · 02-15-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyniegenie

Doppledanger = A pet illusion that will take on appearance of friend and absorb damage for friend. Upgrades increase the number of hits and damage absorbed.

I myself have no idea how well its working, and alot of illusionists are complaining about the spell being useless or broken, but if it ever get fixed this is a pretty useful spell.

It is working 100% as of LU42. Its basically a 7k-10k ward of some sorts, its hard to tell how much damage it absorbs because it has the same name as the tank so you have to look for the damage visually. In a raid you probably won't see it. Maybe if you combed through the logs line by line you could tell, I dont care that much.

It does have a pretty significant re-use timer, so its purely situational.

agressiv