Constructive Mythical Feedback / Ideas - Page 4

Duress · 02-18-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renataki

I certainly see where you're coming from. You want the Mythical weapon to give you a purpose, to let the raid leader know where to put you. Frankly, I think that's wrong. I think your place in the raid should be determined by the fact that you're a coercer, not because you're wielding the mythical weapon. The weapon should help us do our role better, whatever that is. The problem is, as a class, we don't really have a role.

If you seriously want to look into fixing the mythical, then you should seriously look at fixing the class too. Otherwise you're bandaging the arm as we bleed out through our torso.

Of everything suggested here, I think Strikethrough on a Group Impetus is really the most feasible one. I still stand behind the fact that the tank proc should be on our spells, and we should have upgrades. Stuff like that will help us more than just fixing this. And while I understand that you want to get the mythical fixed, let's pretend that some of these suggestions will make it through. Suddenly, our class will be "balanced," because our epic has been revamped. Sadly that won't be close to true, but hey, that's how it'll be seen by the devs.

I'll agree on a few things. It shouldn't have anything to do with charm. A mana proc is probably redundant, but frankly not far out of line with what we actually do. And I'm sorry if you think the immunity removal is a bad idea, but fact is, it's something unique and does have some applications. I won't lie, I love the idea of group Perpetuality, but that's a pipe dream. It's not our bag of tricks - haste is for Illusionists, even if we both get that AA line. That's Sony's way of thinking, and that's why they'd completely shoot it down.

You must be new...?

Coercers have been begging devs for two. years. for fixes. Two years.

This is not the time to be asking for sweeping changes after devs just spent, what, three months or so working on this shit. Epics were a PERFECT opportunity to bandage classes' deficiencies, and they missed the marked with us.

This thread is my way of constructively helping them brainstorm so that WHEN (please god, WHEN) they look at our weapon, they'll know what to do to fix it.

----> Aeralik, I'm serious man. PLEASE throw us a bone. Please. =( I'll take a "We're looking into it" at this point...Something...=(

Revel · 02-18-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renataki

And I can't tell, Revel, but I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey there. I'm not saying a reactive cure for the group. That would be horrible, ridiculous, and clunky. I'm trying to say give us a way to use our arsenal of spells on "Epic" stuff.

I'm saying that when we cast an offensive spell (though better wording should be a damage spell), we have a 9/12% chance to remove stun/mez/stifle/daze immunity (ie, the privileged status it has from being "Epic," or any other mob like a cockatrice that can't be mezzed, etc.) from the mob for 8.0s. At the end of the 8 seconds, if it happens to be stunned, mezzed, stifled, or dazed, then it's cured.

What this actually lets us do is randomly give us a window of opportunity to use our utility spells on raid mobs. However, the debuff can't overwrite itself, so you can't keep this up constantly, and since the mob is cured upon termination of the debuff, you can't chain stun/mez/stifle/daze it either.

Yeah, I understood the basic reasoning and mechanics although I didn't comment on it that thoroughly. For me, there are specific times I want to stun/stifle/daze. These are: right before an ae, right after an ae if I missed it, or in emergencies. The allusion I made to the mana cure was that of course there are times you need a cure, but it's so rare that you time it/proc it so that actually lands that cure when you need it. Similarly, there are times that you want extra control effects, but it will be rare that you will remove the immunity and land that extra control effect when its useful (especially with the small window) that it's not something I want to roll the dice on.

In general I would not include anything to do with control immunities. It's just not really powerful enough. Several epic mobs are already stun immune, removing the immunity won't even help.

Renataki · 02-18-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duress

You must be new...?

Coercers have been begging devs for two. years. for fixes. Two years.

This is not the time to be asking for sweeping changes after devs just spent, what, three months or so working on this shit. Epics were a PERFECT opportunity to bandage classes' deficiencies, and they missed the marked with us.

This thread is my way of constructively helping them brainstorm so that WHEN (please god, WHEN) they look at our weapon, they'll know what to do to fix it.

----> Aeralik, I'm serious man. PLEASE throw us a bone. Please. =( I'll take a "We're looking into it" at this point...Something...=(

Nope, not really all that new. I just think if we make a stand on one part, the epic, if they ever do cave, they'll call it a day at that. And then use the fact that they fixed our epic as justification to ignore us even more.

I've been around a while, I'm well aprised of the lack of love that we've gotten as a class, and that's pretty much why I don't want to give devs any more reason to ignore us. And when it comes down to it, anything I've mentioned is hardly a great sweeping change. But if we're going to talk about the epic, then it does help, I feel, to talk about what's actually good about it, and then maybe point out how that stuff should probably be a class feature instead of a bandaid fix.

Yeah, we need to pick our battles. I'd even like to win those battles, but not at the cost of losing the war. I'm just very concerned that's what we're working towards. I'm optimistic, in that I hope a dev reads this thread and does something. But I hope it's more than just the epic.

Mendanbar · 02-18-2008, 08:09 PM

So translation... "make the +5% Power into +10% power. It's better than what we had but so little that we don't have to feel bad instead for trying for something that makes our class wanted."

kittiarah · 02-19-2008, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Coercers have been begging devs for two. years. for fixes. Two years.

Coercer's have been begging for fixes for longer than two years, and I (the fool I am) has stuck here through thick and thin since game release.

Please devs...help us out here, this is the first time since '04 that I've considered betraying and mentioned it to my RL for her to say 'Go for it'.

Fix our Epic.

Cenarius · 02-19-2008, 05:48 AM

-remove 30% power restriction for sirens gift

-make dps buff groupwide

-add cast/recastbonus to peaceful link

Hesster · 02-19-2008, 09:42 AM

My suggestion would be to ditch at least one of the power regen components in favor of something else. It's not like coercers have issues with power.

A decent damage proc would be nice for starters.

How about maybe a single target clicky uber massive hate buff that can be placed on people in other groups. Make it reasonable, like 30 second duration that refreshes every 2-3 minutes. I'd rather have something active that requires player input so people don't level a coercer purely as a buff bot.

Coercers are the lowest population class, and I don't think the epic as it is is going to make anyone change their minds.

Duress · 02-19-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hesster

My suggestion would be to ditch at least one of the power regen components in favor of something else. It's not like coercers have issues with power.

A decent damage proc would be nice for starters.

How about maybe a single target clicky uber massive hate buff that can be placed on people in other groups. Make it reasonable, like 30 second duration that refreshes every 2-3 minutes. I'd rather have something active that requires player input so people don't level a coercer purely as a buff bot.

Coercers are the lowest population class, and I don't think the epic as it is is going to make anyone change their minds.

I agree, one of the power procs needs to go.

Damage proc would be nice but I'd rather (awesome) utility at this point.

Hate buff? For redux or gain? Mages are pretty close to cap in a typical mage group (troub+illus w/ STA+gear) and scouts have means of dumping it more often than not. MTs roll close to cap on passive with dirge, AA, and gear.

Yes, we're a low pop class, but mythicals are giving even greater impetus to abandon the class as other classes have had their usefulness expanded. This is my attempt to get devs thinking and give hardcore raiding coercers something that will help secure their continued presence on the raid. =P 24 slots, 24 classes, and guaranteed redundancies (hello bards?) = stiff competition.

Linyen · 02-19-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cenarius

-remove 30% power restriction for sirens gift

-make dps buff groupwide

-add cast/recastbonus to peaceful link

1) ew, i dont get why people would seriously want this, you can do fine without it, stop being lazy. dont get something on your epic that you can already do just fine, just to cut out the lazy.

2) ew, just ew. in favor of what else we could get, /veto.

3) You mean inrease cast speed / reuse speed by a %? Thats not bad as long as the % is considerable.

Torrent · 02-19-2008, 05:15 PM

As I think on it more, I really like Duress' idea of tacking on a recast and recovery bonus to Perp and making it a group buff. It really would need to be based off the coercer's cast rates though. (Imagine a defiler with 5 second wards trying to keep Perp going.) Replacing the tank mental damage thing with that, and heck, we might even need both power widgets to keep our groups full up.

So, my current vote is:

Perp --> a group buff that improves cast speed/reuse and recovery for the entire group.

Useless power proc stays put except goes to "hostile" rather than "spell attacks"

Group mana flow stays put.

5% power pool (The 3rd!!!! power thing on the dang stick) gets replaced with 5% base spell damage.

+WIS ---> +STR