Renataki

Alright, making a separate thread here to respect Duress' wishes and not shit all over the Mythical Fix thread with "non-related" stuff.

So I'd like to point out where I'm coming from with the whole "fix Coercers not just the epic attitude."

Consider this as a yearly salary negotiation. Nevermind the fact that they've totally ignored us for way longer than a year.

This is totally working under the assumption that they're even going to listen, but let's run with it. Because that's what all of our hopeful threads are assuming.

We go in to try and negotiate our raise. If anything gets done, anything gets agreed upon, we're still going to be stuck with it for a long time. So here are the risks we run:

1) Ask for way too much and be totally ignored/shot down.
2) Ask for not enough and get it, but then realize we could have and should have done way better.
3) Focus exclusively on the vacation package, and even if we get it, later realize that the extra time off does us no good since we don't have the salary to put it to use.

The ideal strategy is instead:

4) Understand the mind of our boss, what our boss expects from us, and what compensation we should actually have. And then negotiate for that.

Translation for the metaphorically challenged:

1) We start "shooting for the moon" and it just gets ridiculous, and of course the devs ignore us.
2) We don't try hard enough and don't adequately address all the issues, but we get fixed enough that devs think it's done.
3) We focus exclusively on the epic, and we actually fix it. But the coercer as a whole is still hurting. Once again, devs think this is hunky-dory.

4) We try and piece together a theme based on the abilities our class has, come up with something appropriate, and then present it to the devs. Assuming they're going to listen, may as well give them the whole package. Not as a laundry list of grievances and complaints, but a well thought out list of what should change and why.

Alright, I'm done ruining everyone else's day with my logic. If anyone feels the need to attack me for my corporate-culture metaphor, or you just think I'm a moron in general, please post in this thread.

Orodina

To work with that metaphor, a job position generally has a job description against which assess whether or not something is in-scope or out of scope. Do we really know what the devs have down for what the role of a coercer is?

Obsidiann

I find it funny that it's supposed to be like a salary negotiation when you're the one paying them.

JediJay13

I like this thread; it has even more constructive to whole as "Coercer". I cancel my account not because of Epic, probably a bit I admit. The real reason is that they nerfed spells. As player could give more efficient feedbacks and role ideal to devs since YOU are the consumers! It’s up to your and devs' motivation...

Good luck :-) Im not going to play until it gets improve :-P

Renataki

No, we don't know that for certain. But we can look at what we've got, and hazard a guess. And we can point out why the status quo is wrong.

From one perspective I can see that, from another you're dead wrong if you think that changes the metaphor. The employer/employee contract is supposed to be a mutually beneficial arrangement. It just so happens that in this case the employee is the customer. Fact is, we give them money, and get entertainment in return. The "salary" here is how useful/useless our class is and the "work" we're providing for the company is just us giving them money. Remove the standard concept of the employee getting paid with money, and you'll probably see how it's appropriate.

At this point though, seeing as we're the customers, you'd think that holds some weight with Sony, but it apparently doesn't. Either they don't care, or they know that nobody will be quitting the game, they'll just be betraying to Illusionist. And yes, we already know, Obsidiann, you don't care if anyone does.

But the devs should.

Lulu

I pulled this from the EQ2 Main page where you can preview the classes:

Coercer: The Coercer is capable of subduing enemies, sending them into a paralyzing state of fascination or causing them to flee in uncontrollable terror. Master of domination, Coercers can subjugate the mind of another, taking complete control and forcing an unwitting creature to do their bidding.

Illusionist: Illusionists employ subtlety and distraction to impose their will upon the enemy. Using their mental acuity to confuse, misdirect and subdue their opponents, Illusionists can bring order to an otherwise chaotic environment while bestowing beneficial enhancements upon their allies.

Based on these class summaries we are pure CC while Illys are CC and Buffbot. Neither mentions actually damaging anything, although at least it implies that coercers should be able to force a creature to "do our bidding". As starting points go, that one needs work.
*edited to remove the garbled junk I initially posted. Sorry*

Revel

Interesting as a historical point of view perhaps, but the game has moved far, far beyond whatever was posted on the eq2 website. Or to put it another way, the eq2 web development has been sorely lacking, as you can tell by how awfully station players is updated, how even the free guild web pages fared, and how any/all of the original "strategy" pages were abandoned.

I've simply evolved my toon and its capabilities, to the best of my ability, to adapt to whatever changes occurred. At this point you have to see what's going on in game and start to compare and contrast to get a point of view from which you can explain what's right and wrong with the class.

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Orodina

But that still doesn't get at what Aeralik has in mind when he thinks 'coercer'. What we have to judge is the results - the first incarnation of Puppetmaster, the epic weapon, what spells got upgraded in T8 vs. those that did not, and how. That should give at least a hazy picture of the purpose of coercers, and it isn't a picture that I find reflected in how people actually play the class.

Codename

Turn cataclysmic mind into a dot, give it similar effects to Asylum (without the debuff), there's my 2 cents.

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80 Coercer of Mojo Rising
Do they speak English in What?

Fimzor

Rena you have a valid point. the so called "boss" that it is SoE, Want us to play they way they made the class, but it doesnt actually come into context of what we actually can and or could do in a raid to contribute.

For an example we've been given a power saving epic which in a Devs point of view is what a coercer "Should" do.

The majority of Teh Raiding (HC) Allready know well enough of thier Class to keep their grp powered for long fights.

/cast Vote for DeV's to actually form a raid without any help of'Uber Buffs'. And see how well the planned thoughts came to.

Many of our Spells consist of factors of which are designed for a mob that we can actually use in a raid situation. But that content hasnt appeared consistently in Raid content. /Problem

Ok some Truth IM NOT A HC RAIDER! But i see problems in our class that needs to be fixed.

Codename Cata in to a DoT? I guess it wouldnt be power based dmg?

Cata i have only used on one mob and thats in fens'Hydromancers!
Freckin Hydromancers! (Not seen content in raid yet to give it anymore thought other than it be de suck!) 1 MoB

Many other things can be addressed on Spells nd have perfected the class. Do SoE really expect ppl to play the way that SoE want? Altho they have allready beaten the high end content doing it thier way?

Ready for your Flames!