Can we get a mailinglist started so we can stop wasting time? - Page 3

Flipmode · 03-10-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavion

Well, you certainly have the right to put yourself out there like that and agree with him, but I am still trying to figure out how you can make some of the claims about the class that you just did. I have been over this before a ton on other threads, it gets tiring constantly repeating myself so I'm not going to do the whole page-long repost here.

As for my own experiance, I am mainly running group instances now because I don't have the work schedule for raiding anymore, but I was MT Coercer for my guild for a long time and I am very versed in what you need to succeed in a raid, so please don't assume you know what I know. I'm in denial of nothing... I know what the game entails and what my class is capable of. I never "denied" anything....not once have I said that the class didn't have issues...I just said they have been exaggerated.

Yes, Coercers actually have a limited role in raid parties as power regen as there is not much to be mezzed in most raids, but there are many classes as you pointed out that are useless, and to me zerkers and bruisers are the more useless than any of them...I have seen SK's make damn good MA's, and most people put group power regen above the extra dps that one more fighter class would give you, so to me, they are not the most useless as you put it. They also have decent enough spells to help in a pinch like thought snap and amnesia. No, they may not be used too often, but they are there if needed. All I'm saying is the term useless is far too undeserving. Oh, and there's nothing wrong with charm, mine works just fine and hardly breaks on me at all anymore.

I am not even going to get into how insignificant the extra contribution really is that Illys provide over Coercers in a raid, because let's face it, it's still mainly a regen role and they are not uber dps either, and I don't really do the whole "attacking other classes" like some people. I have many alts I enjoy myself, and I respect what people choose to play. Whether or not a person chooses a class which I don't personally enjoy has no concern to me whatsoever... it doesn't affect my gaming experience so I don't make it an agenda to gripe about other classes I gave up on like some people here do... seems a bit childish.

To the bolded section, you couldnt not be more wrong. Illys do trump you at utility and DPS by a significant margin. No need to deny it. Illys are overpowered atm. They can put up insane DPS, even more so now with the Mythical epic. More likely than not they will be upin the top 5-6 ZW if they know how to play their class. Please dont try to make coercers feel better by spreading FUD.

Xavion · 03-10-2008, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flipmode

To the bolded section, you couldnt not be more wrong. Illys do trump you at utility and DPS by a significant margin. No need to deny it. Illys are overpowered atm. They can put up insane DPS, even more so now with the Mythical epic. More likely than not they will be upin the top 5-6 ZW if they know how to play their class. Please dont try to make coercers feel better by spreading FUD.

Wow nice way to add to what I was actually saying. I wasn't bashing Illys man, I was saying as far as the RAID is concerned, the regen slot is not going to be looked at for a huge more amount of dps. Is it nice to have? Yes. Is it crucial to the survival of the raid? Not really. One more actual dps class (Brig or Wizzy for example) would be a significant difference. I even said as much two posts back.

I KNOW the Illy class is way better at dps than Coercers, and I am ok with that. You make it look like I am trying to bash the class to save my own and as I stated a couple posts back that was not my aim.

Heck, part of the reason I still play a Coercer main is because I ENJOY the hardships and challenges of the class, because all the other classes I have played on my alts are getting too easy to play imho.

Senelin · 03-10-2008, 09:14 PM

I don't know about your raids, but we're not looking at a "power regen" slot anymore. We look at a "utility" slot. That utility is there to make other's dps higher, the power regen is secondary anymore. Most healers qualify as power regen classes now. If you're not expecting your utility to put up numbers, then you're not going to be successful in end game. It's that simple.

Xavion · 03-10-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anachronomicon

I don't know about your raids, but we're not looking at a "power regen" slot anymore. We look at a "utility" slot. That utility is there to make other's dps higher, the power regen is secondary anymore. Most healers qualify as power regen classes now. If you're not expecting your utility to put up numbers, then you're not going to be successful in end game. It's that simple.

Well if that's how all Kunark raids are now then that is sad, it used to be fun to manage a group's power. /shrug

Flipmode · 03-10-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavion

Wow nice way to add to what I was actually saying. I wasn't bashing Illys man, I was saying as far as the RAID is concerned, the regen slot is not going to be looked at for a huge more amount of dps. Is it nice to have? Yes. Is it crucial to the survival of the raid? Not really. One more actual dps class (Brig or Wizzy for example) would be a significant difference. I even said as much two posts back.

I KNOW the Illy class is way better at dps than Coercers, and I am ok with that. You make it look like I am trying to bash the class to save my own and as I stated a couple posts back that was not my aim.

Heck, part of the reason I still play a Coercer main is because I ENJOY the hardships and challenges of the class, because all the other classes I have played on my alts are getting too easy to play imho.

I am not saying you are bashing illys, just maybe you havent raided with a good one recently. We can match and exceed a brigs DPS while increasing others DPS. So if a brig is a significant DPS boost to a raid, so to must an Illy. I think your lack of RoK raiding experience is partially to blame for not fully grasping the mess that coercers are in ATM. Thats not a flame, just an observation.

So, you like playing the coercer class for the hardships? I used to be a masochist too, but I eventually retired my Coercer. And with the state of RoK raids, i just plain retired. Not worth the headache any more, tbh.

Xavion · 03-11-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flipmode

So, you like playing the coercer class for the hardships? I used to be a masochist too, but I eventually retired my Coercer. And with the state of RoK raids, i just plain retired. Not worth the headache any more, tbh.

It's still fun to me, and I have tons of alts I play as well (yes even a lowbie Illy to be completely honest, but she doesn't get much play time really). I have an 80 SK, 71 Fury, and 71 Defiler, and a 44 Dirge that are my most played of all the alts I have. So, I have many ways of enjoying the game and doing things that the Coercer cannot do, while still being happy with my main quite often (and yes, I'm a retired raider atm).

I love support classes more than anything so I guess that's why I am of the mindset that most people want the world for their classes while not realizing they have it way better than others' classes, which either need fixing, or simply are meant to be support and therefore not too overpowering dps-wise. Everyone thinks DPS is all there is... and while it may be obviously the most vital aspect of combat... the devs may need to go back and rethink the balance (lol yeah right) of the game, combat specifically, because I'm fairly certain this isn't obviously what they had set out to do at launch... namely, isolate classes.

Mendanbar · 03-11-2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavion

It's still fun to me, and I have tons of alts I play as well (yes even a lowbie Illy to be completely honest, but she doesn't get much play time really). I have an 80 SK, 71 Fury, and 71 Defiler, and a 44 Dirge that are my most played of all the alts I have. So, I have many ways of enjoying the game and doing things that the Coercer cannot do, while still being happy with my main quite often (and yes, I'm a retired raider atm).

I love support classes more than anything so I guess that's why I am of the mindset that most people want the world for their classes while not realizing they have it way better than others' classes, which either need fixing, or simply are meant to be support and therefore not too overpowering dps-wise. Everyone thinks DPS is all there is... and while it may be obviously the most vital aspect of combat... the devs may need to go back and rethink the balance (lol yeah right) of the game, combat specifically, because I'm fairly certain this isn't obviously what they had set out to do at launch... namely, isolate classes.

Which is a valid argument... but is itself the reason why coercers are so upset. SoE could have gone with 2 paths, either upping coercer DPS, or upping coercer utility (because it's nonexistent). They decided to forge a third path and kick them square in the nuts.

Linyen · 03-11-2008, 01:19 AM

I love my coercer and am waiting for the supposed changes to epic weapons before I make any decision on betraying. Once they start changing epics and if coercers dont get some big love then my decision will be easy...my guild already keeps asking me when im going to betry =p

PS Obsidiann is a fucking moron, gunna get a RaR soon

Flohzirkus · 03-11-2008, 06:48 AM

Urm, I betrayed from Illu to Coercer with RoK. Since Dec. last year, I'm trying to find out, why the hell my Raid Force wanted a Coercer. My DPS is nearly.. the lowest of all Scouts, Tanks, and Int Caster. Yes,
even furies do more than I. My hate gain is a nice gift, that noone wants (since I'm in the OT group most of the time). All I do on raids is casting debuffs, dolls, and some dmg.

I never thought, that there is such a different between illus and coercers, but there is. Sure we provide some uniqe abilities, but when your raid is getting better and better, you're only the 5th tire on a car.

I rember a time when noone wanted six tanks in the raid and I guess, there will be a day, when the raids only want one coercer, or even better none. It's like grouping for instances. Why choose the coercer, if
you get an illu and clear it faster? You must have a good name on the server to get the spot infront of an illu.

I have a spot in the raid because I betrayed, but I bet that some coercer loose theirs spot, if they don't betray to illu in future, since the goal of the game isn't being a nice guy. Raidforces, aspecialy the good
ones, want only the best update for their raids. And the illu is going to make the race in the moment.

So, I understand the posting. I'm not sure how the devs can fix this problem without nerv something else. Maybe change our charm to dire charm like in eq1. Maybe raise the dmg of our spells a little. Maybe fix
some of our spells. No idea. Maybe we should collect some of our ideas, and send that letter to the devs, but I guess someone did that already, or?

Here are mine:
Epic or AA Tree should have something like "dire" for our charm spell
Raise the dmg of our Spells in low steps (about 5% stepps) till we near us the dps of other supporter.

Flohzirkus, Coercer on Valor

JackAll · 03-11-2008, 12:03 PM

I was just wondering.

How does that soe dick taste after this thread?

http://www.eq2flames.com/general-gam...tion-list.html