What is up with these rumors? - Page 2

spinedoc · 03-02-2009, 09:37 AM

Well I guess we are popularly viewed as being extremely overpowered as evidenced by vehement replies to a post I made on the official forums. If the typical sledgehammer SOE approach applies I wouldn't be surprised if nerfs for us were in the dev's list of to do's.

Revel · 03-02-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeralik

Re:Re:Re:Re:GU51 ETA? Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:
Far too many people are overreacting about the severity of these changes. Tanking didn't magically become something different. DPS still holds aggro, except taunts are more useful and managing hate with such utilities allows for more space to eke out damage in the ways already possible. Instead of making hyperbolic reactions, players should look to critically consider areas to improve upon the needed change. Starting in this thread on balancing fighter stances is key.

There a couple basic issues that make it not overreacting IF you play a tank. First tanks have been seen as offensive vs. defensive. They have now changed this paradigm to ST vs AoE.

Single versus AOE is how threat is setup. In defensive stance with similar gear/buffs the fighter damage hierachy should still hold up. So if you want to label some class as offensive tank then you can but its not something I would really label any of them to begin with. They have their damage hierachy and I still think that stands if you compare all the tanks in defensive or all of them in offensive.

Secondly, I changed the stances as Kiara mentioned to be in separate reuse groups so that secondary tanks can quickly switch into defensive stance if the primary tank goes down. So what stance secondary tanks use is really based on the requirements of the encounter.

Lastly, this is the first part of trying to get people back into their core roles so to speak. Tanks take the brunt of it now but we realize other classes are doing high damage when they shouldn't be while some others don't have the utility to match their role. Some may even pick up new roles down the line. So while we are currently tweaking the fighters we do have things in mind for the others albeit probably not as dramatic as the fighters( at least I hope not ).

LINK

I put the 3rd paragraph in red as the statement by Aeralik which sounds like he has enchanters "doing high damage when they shouldn't" as a target. I have known this since the start of TSO when trying to argue for better shard armor and fabled set armor and getting shot down about it. (Basically they were trying to tone down our dps by making those pieces much worse than other mages). I don't disagree that our dps is too high, but power management alone is not enough to make the class fun, so there has to be something else we are given to balance it out. We know that they've taken away Amnesia's utility, made many difficult mobs stun, stifle, daze, root immune (moreso than their simple resist), and failed to make mez useful in any raid encounter. So their track record is pretty poor in trying to make the class fun in its "core role."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeralik

I think you guys are reading too much into the statements. There are several classes who feel they bring nothing to the group/raid. Making them desirable is obviously something we want to get done this year. Others might have the utility built in but it lags behind other methods so it could use some tweaks. It's that kinda stuff we are looking into.

LINK

And this is Aeralik's attempt at damage control from these statements.

*Edit: So far the proc changes and avatar loot changes look reversed, but the robe change has not been addressed.

Jesdyr · 03-02-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revel

I don't disagree that our dps is too high, but power management alone is not enough to make the class fun, so there has to be something else we are given to balance it out. We know that they've taken away Amnesia's utility, made many difficult mobs stun, stifle, daze, root immune (moreso than their simple resist), and failed to make mez useful in any raid encounter. So their track record is pretty poor in trying to make the class fun in its "core role."

The problem is our defining ability is a balance nightmare (charm). And the Enchanter role of CC is something rarely needed because of the focus on DPSing and when it comes to Epic mobs CC is mostly useless and always will be since it can quickly make any fight trivial.

Because of how complex CC and Charm are to balance, they basically eliminate their usefulness in "hard" encounters leaving us with Power regen and DPS for a majority of the game. Unless they are willing to put in the time to FIX CC and Charm, they should leave our DPS alone.

I should note that I am not a raider .. I will go on a raid every once in a while but it isnt the level I am playing at but, I would like to think I am at the top end of the "non-raiding coercer" scale (who doesnt buy his gear).

Trepan · 03-05-2009, 02:12 AM

I think the simplest overall fix would be to have a dev that plays a coercer as their main. Someone who has a true feel for the class as it is required to be played, not laid out in a spread sheet or in concept documentation or a two boxed battery.

Do we have one?

Revel · 03-05-2009, 02:45 AM

I think Rothgar leveled a coercer to level 6 on test, does that count?

There's alot of coercers out there that can give reasonable suggestions that the devs can sort though, if they just listened to us or at least described what their vague plan for us would be, then at least we could give suggestions back. Til then we just gotta wait and see.

Everywhen · 03-08-2009, 12:46 PM

I just hope they don't nerf us too horribly. I enjoy this class and hitting manaflow every thirty seconds would be the most boring thing ever. I actually enjoy how this expansion has panned out because instead of the parses having a strict hierarchy, different classes can randomly jump up near the top of the parse if they time their spells correctly, use the right gear, and have put a lot of time into their character. It's fun to know that if I work hard enough I can reach a high potential but can still be outdps'd if I slack, rather than always knowing I will be below a heavy dps class...

For example, I met an 11k parsing fury the other day and I wasn't upset. I thought it was cool that he worked his character out, and learned his class and some tricks enough, to be able to reach that point and even outdps some normally heavy dps classes. And anyway, I don't think we're so overpowered that we don't have to work for our dps. In the MT group with a guardian I still have to work for my dps. If you're outparsing people in the mage group with a guard in the MT group, it has nothing to do with your class being overpowered and everything to do with them not playing theirs to the fullest potential.

Jambox · 03-09-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everywhen

it has nothing to do with your class being overpowered and everything to do with them not playing theirs to the fullest potential.

QFT

even before i was raiding my coercer i was doing a LOT of pick-ups to play with cast orders and optimise what i was capable of, and the average wizzy/lock/assass/<insert dps class here> on a PUG is doing 2k at a stretch, i was doing 4-5, even had a 7k zw in manor once but i had a sexy ass troub so meh.

but my point is, my coercer then was similarly geared to the 1.8-2k wizzy, similar amount of aa, does that mean coercers are built to do twice as much dps as wizards and therefore need kicked in the balls? hell no, it means that wizzy was SLACK and hadnt bothered himself.

if they nerf us too much i will have to leave and take up smack again

Torrent · 03-09-2009, 01:42 PM

Right before LU 45, I was really considering giving up on my coercer. I was about ready to either betray or change mains to a shammy I was busily levelling up at the time.

The mob is really getting fired up even worse on official. I think there's a lot of crappy-ass non-chanter mages out there that blame us for their suck and inability to get into a raid.

They are starting to scare me, and I don't think I'm going to keep up trying to make the case for not nerfing us, in the hope that if I shut up for a while, maybe they will stop drooling on my shoes for a bit.

It seems like every thread over there now is derailing into NERF ENCHANTERS. So much hate.

Harowen · 03-09-2009, 02:31 PM

It's just amazing. You take a pair of classes that require a high degree of competence to play well, enchanters, and then when people play them competently we get yelled at by the incompetent people that we're doing too much damage.

People whine about our zonewide parses being good but I'm there pushing a button more frequently than 1/sec and watching other people periodically stealth afk during trash kills.

I think the real problem is that the enchanter class attracts competence due to being more complex and competent people tend to parse better.

Pinski · 03-09-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harowen

It's just amazing. You take a pair of classes that require a high degree of competence to play well, enchanters, and then when people play them competently we get yelled at by the incompetent people that we're doing too much damage.

People whine about our zonewide parses being good but I'm there pushing a button more frequently than 1/sec and watching other people periodically stealth afk during trash kills.

I think the real problem is that the enchanter class attracts competence due to being more complex and competent people tend to parse better.

We are doing too much damage, but the problem isn't that we do too much damage, but rather the problem is we have nothing else to actively offer besides damage.