Tevesh

OP, stick with the mage grp. Make sure your rl has no fucking clue that coercers are needed in mt (but gets an illy and trouby in your group) and go rampage on parses.

Senelin

Yep, MT group is the albatross around our neck, we do it because we do it best, but we do much better dps in a mage group.

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Cenarius

qfe

Ps: if rl ask you to manage your dmg point out that you have something like a aggro transfer or.. just put it on someone in your group which you don't need (everyone beside truby, illy and healer)

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Moonsorceror

So if you still want to get into the MT group...

Three main points: better Healer Buffs, better Aggro Control, better Power Management

Healer Buffs:
Coercive Healing >> TC on Healer - effectively you exchange 15% Base Heal for 5% beneficial cast speed... guess what wins here..

Empathic Aura with 16% heal crit is of course available to Illy too but how often are they actually taking it...

Intelectual Remedy another temporary 15% base heal for your MT healers - pefect for those oh shit moments or precast to stabilize a tricky pull until adds are dead or offtanked

Mana Ward is a great livesaver at tolerable cost (just a few seconds to cast Mana Flow with Mythical and you are full again) just dont tell your RL that this is castable raidwide ;-)

In general a coercer allows your MT group to do a lot more content with Chain and Plate healers only and get a assassin/swash in to transfer hate.


Aggro Control:
DPS Buff ~ Haste - while the Illy haste is grpwide usually only 3 people in MT grp profit from it, which is what you can buff too with your dps buff. Also Tanks usually aren't as DPS capped as some scouts so they profit about equally.

Hate Buff + Transfer >> Double Attack - while the Illy double attack buff is great to enhance tank DPS and therefore aggro generation, the hate buff + transfer from a competently played coercer still wins - coercers can put out some decent dps even when in MT grp. A pally MT being capped at aggro transfer or near so due to amends might ideed be a reason for going illy but since aggro is not a problem, as stated by OP, this is a moot point.


Power Management:
Coercer passive regen > Illy Passive Regen- we get another 19 per tick on top with Third Eye series - Illy got Savante which offers around 50% power cost reduction for 1/5 of the time - probably better in mage grp where they can hit the big nukes when this is on...

Coercer Mana Flow with AA and Myth >> Illy Mana Flow - we can feed mana to a whole grp every 50 seconds instead of to one char every minute or so. Also you can fill up your mana on demand with it which is important for the next stunt. This of course has to be weighted against the illy myth power proc but from what i see our caster group with illy / troub has more mana problems than our MT group - maybe our casters are just mana hogs...

Channeling: with max AA and some recast you can fill your grp from totally empty to roughly half full in less than 10 seconds by hitting Consume Ego plus eating a Heart/Shard, hitting Mana Flow and wait for it to complete (giving everybody 10% power and you full or almost so) and finally hit channelling which adds up all the groups mana, doubles the sum and evenly distributes it. If there's only some mana hogs empty, it usually fills the whole group.

Kehrer

I´d say the decission to be in MT grp or mage grp should be influenced more by whats best for the raid and not whats best for your personal dps. High Parsing is not everything. (yes i also hate having to push mana when trying to outparse our illus hehehe)
The decission will also be influenced by the individual player/gear quality.

i like beeing in the MT grp and even so end up in the top 3-5 on the parse most of the time. getting cured faster can also be a nice thing.
but i wouldnt mind beeing in the mage grp once in a while either to see what upward potential i´d have on the parse.

anyways. just wanted to add my impression on the mana issue. i also think that we can manage mana better. Cant beat channel as a emergency backup.
MT grp is never out of mana in my experience even when fighting mobs with huge drain like Xebnok in tombs. i even end up pushing mana to other grps including mage grp in some encounters.
and i love the fact that i dont have to worry about managear with my 650 mana reg without special gear. whats the cap anyways? 650 seems to be close to the cap.
thats just my 50 cents

Beordan

Actually Illusionary Arms for MT-DPS is no point at all, since the MT will be getting the Dirges Battle Cry which is superior in any case.
In the end, I would agree with prior statements, If you are not running 4 Illys put the Illy in a group where he makes much more of a difference.

Beo

Cenarius

It's not for personal dps.. it's for showing his rl that he has to be in mt group befor illy..

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Same1

I am in a casual raiding guild with kills up to Xebnok/Kultak/Switchmaster and I spec'ed away from the STA line a while ago... Both MT and OT don't need the 16% heal crit anymore, so its all double attacks and melee crit for me! Our shammies do get a little depressed whenever I forget to slap CH on them after a wipe or simply me dying.

All of the above is true tho, you just do not want the MT/OT to run out of power, and a coercer is the best remedy for power issues. And like stated before a coercer in MT/OT group should still be able to scare some mages on the parse! And there is nothing like getting some mages upset over a coercer in MT group doing 10k! Consume Ego/Heart/Regen Potion/Cannibalize Thoughts/Brainshock/Mana Flow/Channeling... Power issues?

Get yourself some reuse gear (Myth/VP pants ftw) and you will be golden!