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Thread: Coercer deity

  1. #1
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    Default Coercer deity

    I recently returned to EQ2 and an rebooting my coercer. I see that a new deity, Anashti Sul, is listed as the most preferred god for coercers. This appears to be based on two of her blessings (Hand of Death and Crippling Blow) and her miracle, Undying Fury, which provides a 25s buff that grants +25% spell crit and 33% double spell attack.

    Since my coercer is in his mid-20s, it is not clear to me how Undying Fury would be better than Sol Ro's Incinerate (which does ~17K if under 50% health) or Innoruuk's Maestro's Song (which I believe can do 9-10K). It seems to me that one could expect 3-4 spell double attacks and 3 crits over the course of the 25s. How much damage can a coercer do with this many double attacks and crits? I do not think that our reactives benefit from spell double attack. Therefore, I have a hard time believing that a coercer buffed by Undying Fury would be able to match the damage provided by Inny's or Sol Ro's miracles.

    Also, why is Innoruuk not listed among the top 5 preferred deities? Surely, Innoruuk is better than Brell, and I would say that his miracles are superior to those of Cazic unless one is into PVP. The primary downside I see is the cloak, which provides a useless power drain/buff.

  2. #2
    Zhe Pink Coercer!
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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    Considering we cast a shitstorm of spells in 25 seconds and the spell double attack chance is uncontested 33%. Theoretically this means that 1/3rd of the time your spell will do twice the amount of damage. So basically it is a 100% increase in DPS 33% of the time.
    The 25% spell crit will most likely mean for most Coercers that they will 100% of the time on a lvl 88 mob. And thus make sure that every double attack is a crit. In a raid setting your cast speed should be capped (especially with the miracle up) or close to cap and reuse should be high (Recovery is "meh" cause we already can get 48% or so from AA's), which all make for more spells in those 25s. And I just don't think any of the other miracles can touch that.
    As far as I know the FAQ made by Revel (bless him) was made for raiding coercers (as far as I know) and thus leaving the whole solo stuff out of the equation. Which may answer your question to whether Anashti is on top and Innoruuk is not in the top 5 at all.
    I could do the math for it but I just cannot be arsed =).

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    Quote Originally Posted by Same1 View Post
    Considering we cast a shitstorm of spells in 25 seconds and the spell double attack chance is uncontested 33%. Theoretically this means that 1/3rd of the time your spell will do twice the amount of damage. So basically it is a 100% increase in DPS 33% of the time.
    Wouldn't the 33% proc chance be normalized for a 3s casting time spell (not counting any haste)? It would still be a great spell blessing, especially since the coercers AGI line makes it easy to make casting speed.

    Unnormalized, assuming an average casting+recovery time of 1s, you'd expect to double about 8 spells. A solo player might be doing 2k/spell for a total of 16k -- pretty good. A raid player might be doing 4k/spell at level 80, that's 64k extra damage -- much better than either SolRo blessing/miracle. (Raid coercers can do >10k DPS, but I don't know how much of this comes from procs, which shouldn't double).

    Normalized, assuming an average casting+recovery time of 1s and 100% haste (so unhasted casting time is ~1.5 seconds), I'd expect to see ~4 doubled spells. At 4k per spell, that's 16k without the "need to be at 50% hitpoints" rule (which can be deadly in raids).

    So, for raid players, this is definitely the miracle/blessing to get.

    Sadari
    80 Illusionist
    80 Inquisitor

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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    Sadari and Same1,

    Thanks for the prompt replies (and for not flaming my noobish question).

    I appreciate the math. I did not have enough data to generate an accurate estimate of the benefits of Undying Fury since my coercer is still low level. I had assumed an average casting time of 2 seconds and did not consider the fact that the 33% might be normalized.

    Based on what you wrote, it would appear that Anashti Sul is the way to go if one is raiding. However, I plan to solo for a while. Is she still the best choice when soloing, or would I be better served picking another god until I hit the level cap? If the latter, then which of the remaining gods would you recommend?

  5. #5
    Zhe Pink Coercer!
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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    Whenever a spell/proc or whatever says it has a x% it is uncontested so it should not be normalized to a 3s cast**. It actually means that you really have a 33% chance to make a double attack everytime you cast a spell that can make it proc. So in the end I think the extra damage gained from just that single miracle will be higher. But like I said before cba to go for the definite numbers or procentual increase.

    ** Hence the reason why chanters make one of the best targets for tandem (or whatever it is called nowadays).

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    Quote Originally Posted by Same1 View Post
    Whenever a spell/proc or whatever says it has a x% it is uncontested so it should not be normalized to a 3s cast**. It actually means that you really have a 33% chance to make a double attack everytime you cast a spell that can make it proc. So in the end I think the extra damage gained from just that single miracle will be higher. But like I said before cba to go for the definite numbers or procentual increase.

    ** Hence the reason why chanters make one of the best targets for tandem (or whatever it is called nowadays).
    Wild! I learned a new word today: procentual. I'm going to have to use that in one of my manuscripts. If I may ask, for what does "CBA" stand?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    In Jan '09 Aeralik commented on this thread [Monk] BUG - Mongoose Stance change -- Rank 5 is .9% PPM increase - C'MON indicating that percentage proc rates are normalized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeralik
    The base proc percent is 25%. When you spend 5 points the 25 goes to 30% chance normalized over 3 second delay. So in reality you are getting a 20% upgrade to the base percentage. The 0.9 isnt a percentage upgrade its how many additional procs per minute it added which the 5% additional corresponds to roughly 0.9 when rounded.
    Percentage proc's are normalized.

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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    like he said before "cannot be arsed"

    CBA

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    Okay... If the percentage is normalized, and Sadari's earlier calculations are correct, then it seems to me one might expect an additional 8k from Undying Fury when soloing. This would be slightly inferior to Maestro's Song but would not account for the +25% crit (or the heal associated with Maestro's Song). The issues then appear to be as follows:

    (1) Is the 33% normalized?

    (2) If it is normalized, then what is the actual normalized percentage?

    Based on what has been written thus far, I understand the normalization to be based on the cast time.

  10. #10
    Zhe Pink Coercer!
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    Default Re: Coercer deity

    Quote Originally Posted by Harowen View Post
    In Jan '09 Aeralik commented on this thread [Monk] BUG - Mongoose Stance change -- Rank 5 is .9% PPM increase - C'MON indicating that percentage proc rates are normalized.



    Percentage proc's are normalized.
    I can recall somewhere on the Coercer forums a discussion on Tandem and some person who has made a lot of sense so far made a good point about it not being normalized so I took that for granted.

    Procentual = Percentual.. I'm Dutch and beside that meaning I'm a cheap bastard, I tend to mix up stuff when typing fast and not reading over stuff I just typed! Dutch = Procent -- English = Percentage.

    And in the words of the great Barney Stinson, making up words makes you look cool! Make the impossible, possible! I call it "the possimpable!" WHAT UP?!

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