Slippery

Did I say anything about not using concentration? Did I say anything about using the pet during raiding? I clearly stated I don't want charm turned into some fucked up retarded ability, and I definitely don't want that waste of shit to be the new ability we get.

Arani

it's called coercer raid role.. the name of the thread, kinda assume its about "coercer raid role"
and were did my idea say change charm it was add this ability to enhance the raid role of the coercer...

I still think either dumbfire or stupid pet like shaman summoned one that procs an effect mentioned about like mana cloak etc would give some MT group utility back to the coercer.

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Slippery

Coercers will never be as good as a Dirge in the MT group, ever. Dumbfire pets are a waste of time, I don't want a pet that is good against trash and gets one shot by an ae by any mob that means anything. A self buff that has a chance to proc something sure, reliance on a dumbfire pet for anything is just gimping yourself.

No dumbfires period, we aren't summoners.

Arani

Well Mr optimistic... every mage class EXCEPT the coercer has a dumbfire and all of them are heavy dps for the class, with illusionist possible wizard exception to heavy dps (correct me if I'm wrong). So hate the summoners as you like cuz they have a pretty solid saved raid seat. Or just pout cuz you walked up to the dirge on the bus and he said "Seat taken bitch keep movin."

point is you are just bitching out your ass, its like talking out your ass but dumber. Critique the idea np but just spouting off dumb shit is annoying.

I just love when little emo tards gotta be all "it will never ever happen the world sucks I think I'll go kill myself..."

Self buff for proc would be great but how the fuck is that going to help the coercer class as a whole have a solid role on the raid? Do you think the raid leader will go omg how awesome the coercer is now because he can self power proc.. ok stick em with the melee and tell em to power emself up some dps or a damn defensive buff or two lemme know when he's ready... the topic is raid roles for the coercer not: Santa, I wish I had a pony and a puppy and a big summoned ^^^ yellow con pet that shoots dkp out its ass so I get hit with it while raiding.

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Revel

1. Jackall already pointed the reasoning out as to why Coercers are not as viable in the MT group as dirges. Dirges offer nearly capped hate along with agression along with defensive buffs. particularly stoneskin. Coercers offer capped hate along with power regen. If upgrades to the hate had some other component, that would cause raiders to revisit the question, but in testing and in practice, the coercer is pointless in an mt group in most scenarios.

2. I agree with Slippery's point that if we get one new spell for RoK, I wouldn't want it to be a dumbfire pet. I don't know how many spells we could get, but a dumbfire would be low on my list. In raids, dumbfires are among the most unreliable sources of damage, and we already have the second most unreliable source (reactive damage). For example, I took out my Fidgeting Gloves of the Savant for fun, something that has a pretty high damage potential in groups and against non AE mobs (about 30 dps potential), and wore them for several entire raids. The proc cast a 20 second pet that hits for about 200 damage every 2.5 seconds, almost equivalent to a weak Netheros or Protoflame, with the drawback that it's randomly cast. The dps increase I ended up with was 7.

Results were similar to other dumbfires used on the raid; only our Necromancer used his awaken grave with any regularity and it accounted for a minute portion of his overall dps. On individual fights, even, it was a generally low amount. Although the spell has a high potential, they averaged only about 2 hits or 6-8 seconds of life, at about 300-400 per hit. That's less than 20% of its total possible lifespan and pretty pitiful damage. Only multiple pets seemed viable since they got in many more hits before they would die.

In short dumbfires would be some extra damage, but because of their unreliability, would probably be the worst choice for trying to increase coercer damage via a new spell.

P.S. Wizards have 2 dumbfires but there were no records of it being cast at any time.

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Calbiyum

So roll a summoner

Slippery

A self proc that had a chance to proc group power as opposed to a worthless dumbfire that would do nothing but die. That English enough for you? Dumbfire pets are the worst thing you could give us.

Manyak

Consider this your correction. In a good mage group an illusionist can keep up with (and sometimes even beat) other mages DPS.

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Revel

Nah, you read too fast Manyak, Arani's theory was that dumbfire pets (except for your silly Construct of Reason) are a major portion of their dps. Not that Illusionists can't do dps.

But the truth is that it's a small portion of dps even for summoners, and almost nil for other classes save Dark Broodlings for Warlocks.

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Manyak

Ur right, i do read too fast lol.

Either way, the illu construct is definately worth casting and worrying about. Its pretty hard to get a good parse for it cuz ACT likes to split it into 500 different things in 500 different places, but a good estimate for it would be like 300 DPS if kept up properly (45 sec out of every 60, or as close to that as possible). With the AAs to make it last the full 60 seconds, it would probably be worth about 500 DPS if kept up constantly.

But of course, if the mob sneezes it dies.

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