terzaghi

I am starting a raid guild and I have only a little experience. We have a small raid alliance and it is apparent that we are going to be limited to what we can accomplish with the high transient population of our raids. We are not aiming to be the best on the server by any means, but I want to have us headed in the right direction so we can evolve accordingly. Any advice on this group setup? I am trying to read up on all the classes, so some of these choices may not make sense given I admit I do not know everything yet (is that unusual for this forum? lol). Any advice is greatly appreciated.

I am mostly troubled in groups 3 and 4. I like the idea of 2 necros, but I also want an Inquisitor. Not too keen on Inquis healing a lifeburn though.

I also would prefer to not have "caster" and "melee" groups, unless you really have a strong argument against mixing.

Thanks in advance.


Berzerker Assassin Dirge Defiler Templar Warden

Guardian Swashbuckler Coercer Brigand Conjuror Mystic

Troubador Illusionist Brigand Warlock Necro Inquis

Troubador Illusionist Ranger Wizard Necro Fury

Niber

That MT group is bad.

Most people run: Guard/Swashy/Dirge/Templar/Defiler/Enchanter

I can't imagine anyone running two Necros (or 3 Summoners!), try moving the Brigand out of the MT group and into the 4th group in place of your 2nd Necro.

Better to just go with Pinski's setup if you're going to run 2 Troub groups.

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terzaghi

Zerker is the MT group. My team will not understand how to hold their agro, so I thought the extra aoe from the Zerker would be best, with the guard being good at snap agro to pick up when we screw up. For that matter, I don't think the troubs are that important judging from the pitiful raid dps we have as a raid alliance. I wanted them there though just because someday we will need them.

If 2 necros is odd, what other dps would you suggest to duplicate?

Responded before you posted that other set up, will look at it now.

Oh a brawler! Wife will be happy about that, been slave driving her to level a shaman. Still thinking...

and crap I mispelled raid in the thread title. Son of a noob!

Pinski

First thing, you have way too many mages. Second thing, why are you bringing a Guardian on the raid if he's not the MT? If you want max DPS from this raid you're pretty fucked in the fact that you have 5 non-enchanter mages. That's just dumb. Next, you only have 1 dirge, that's pretty bad too. But seriously, >4 non-enchanter mages is a bad idea. Not to mention, having only 1 dirge is also a bad idea.

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TANGARTH

sorcerers > summoners

:D

terzaghi

Size command? I said that? I don't recall.

I have 2 dirges, mistyped on my raid setup. supposed to be troub/dirge for one group.

So do I even need a wiz/necro/conj/warlock, or just limit each to one? fine by me, but what scout class is worth having a duplicate? Based on our pu raids I hardly ever see any mages parsing over 1k. My wife the monk is landing in top 3 at about 1k, or even less. That's why we are looking to move on. WTF are ppl doing that my wife, doesn't read a forum, just mashes buttons, can still beat them (mages, with some exceptions) in dps? I would be more than happy to replace a wiz with a scout. Just thought that the wiz was going to be useful for diversity sake.

Pinski

Your wife is hitting the buttons, the other people aren't mashing the buttons.

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terzaghi

damn need to give her more credit. It's true, she will heal and intercept (and whatever else non dps related), and still beat them, which leaves us scratching our heads why?

So just for reference, ditch a necro for a brawler, fit in a dirge where I can.

Mezelline

The reason why most people separate into melee/mag dps is for two reasons.

First, the proper bard makes a big difference on dps; about 10-15%. Second, mages are really good at buffing each other, and indeed, their cross-buffs are necessary to keep up with scouts. If you are mixing groups instead of specializing, perhaps this is why your mages aren't parsing so hot.

You do need wiz/necro/conj/warlock, because mage gear will drop in your raid and if you don't have these classes it'll rot. Having both a necro and a conj is invaluable because of the shard/hearts, not to mention the ability to CoH in replacements. Wizards and Warlocks buff caster dps a large amount, second only to Troubadors; if you don't have them in groups with other casters, your mage DPS will suffer.

Ideal setup with 2 dirges IMHO is:

Guardian, Defiler, Templar, Warden, Dirge, Assassin
(MT healer trio for maximum survivability since you're a new raidforce, ass is pref over swash because apply poison)

Paladin, Mystic, Warden, Illusionist, Warlock, Swashbuckler
(Paladin should be able to hold AE aggro and will probably be ganking aggro from MT on non-named fights. Every raid needs both Mystic/Swash for debuffs. This warden also handles the single target regens on the MT, who is focused on cures.)

Inquisitor, Dirge, Ranger, Monk, Conjurer, one more of any scout class
(Monk is in here for brawler situations and buffs, conj is filler so we can have a conj, inq and dirge get more mileage out of your dps)

Fury, Troubador, Wizard, Illusionist, Necromancer, Brigand.
(Brigand receives all the useful melee buffs, and benefits greatly from the Troub deaggro, as does the wizard. Second illy is good because a mage group is useless without mana.)

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Mezelast - Najena's first 80 Warlock
Mezelardo - 80 Paladin
Mezelina - 80 Berserker - Retired due to SOE hate
Mezelline - 70 Defiler - Retired due to SOE love
I AE IN '08

Klug

Trust me, especially with the additional 20 AA's in each tree, the gap in AoE aggro is very small between a Berserker and a Guardian. Regardless, the OT would grab and hold any mobs that stray from the MT.
You will be best served to use the Guardian as the MT, since they bring very very little to any other group, whereas a Berserker has some decent group buffs for Scout types. Guardians still have the best tools for managing spike damage, which is what usually kills the MT.

Other than MT/OT, can't think of any class more important than Bards.
Hate management, DPS for each group member, and survivability for the group is what they bring to the table. PoTM and Jester's Cap from a Trouby are awesome abilities. Coupled with Fortissimo and DKTM, they are an essential class. Luck of the Dirge from the Dirges is also awesome.
Nowadays, you see raids with either 3 Dirges 1 Trouby or 2+2.

It's all about complementing each classes buffs/AA's with the other classes in the group/raid.

Try to avoid duplicating any class other than Bards and Enchanters on a raid, unless perhaps you want to stack two Warlocks for Propagation insanity.

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Klug Svear
Retired