Casting speed increase vs. cast time reduction question

Illuminator · 12-27-2007, 04:35 PM

Which ones get applied first?

EQAditu · 12-27-2007, 08:52 PM

Effects that are labeled like:
Improves casting speed by 0.5 seconds

...are applied before effects that are labeled like:
Increases Casting Speed of caster by 14.4%
Reduces cast time of beneficial spells by 4 percent.

Effects that list a percentage are additive, not sequential.

hennyo · 12-28-2007, 07:27 AM

One thing to be careful about tho, is just because you have a bonus that says increases casting time of X spell by 0.5 seconds. It is still capped at the effective 100 percent spell haste.

So you have a 2 second spell without any changes made to it, then you remove 0.5 seconds, and then you have 60 percent spell haste as well. That ability is actually capped at 50 percent even tho every other spell in your book isn't because no matter what happens it will only cast at a maximum speed of 1 second half of the original casting time.

Illuminator · 12-28-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EQAditu

...are applied before effects that are labeled like:
Increases Casting Speed of caster by 14.4%
Reduces cast time of beneficial spells by 4 percent.

Effects that list a percentage are additive, not sequential.

If those two effects were additive then I'd see 4% cast time increase when unequipping 4% of raw cast time reduction. Instead it's comprising ~2%.

BrightMorn · 12-28-2007, 12:57 PM

Depends on if you multiply or divide...

Showing Irradiate with several AAs Choices

3AA

Code:

Irradiate
    2   .03           .05   .114  .05    .01
( Base - AA ) / 1 + ( Race + AA + SoL + Gloves ) = 1.355 (1.36 in game)
( Base - AA ) * 1 - ( Race + AA + SoL + Gloves ) = 1.268 (incorrect)

4AA

Code:

    2   .04           .05   .114  .05    .01
( Base - AA ) / 1 + ( Race + AA + SoL + Gloves ) = 1.275 (1.28 in game)
( Base - AA ) * 1 - ( Race + AA + SoL + Gloves ) = 1.193 (incorrect)

5AA

Code:

Irradiate
    2   .05           .05   .114  .05    .01
( Base - AA ) / 1 + ( Race + AA + SoL + Gloves ) = 1.196 (1.20 in game)
( Base - AA ) * 1 - ( Race + AA + SoL + Gloves ) = 1.119 (incorrect)

EQAditu · 12-28-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

If those two effects were additive then I'd see 4% cast time increase when unequipping 4% of raw cast time reduction. Instead it's comprising ~2%.

Are you sure you are calculating haste correctly? I see far far too many people try to calculate haste where 100% equals infinity instead of equaling double.

Here is the incorrect way that approaches infinite reduction:
5.0s * (1 - 0.144 + 0.04) = 4.48s

Here is how it is calculated in EQ2:
5.0s / (1 + 0.144 + 0.04) = 4.22s

Something that is not obvious from the above is while the EQ2 curve has a higher reduction now, it is using diminishing returns, where the other curve is linear. The EQ2 curve starts faster then tapers off. The infinite curve linearly goes to zero casting time at 100% haste. We all know that 125% haste is possible, so that curve is impossible in this game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrightMorn

Depends on if you multiply or divide...

Showing Irradiate with several AAs Choices

I unfortunately couldn't follow any of your math, as when I put it into a calculator, it did not come close to what you said it should. Are you sure you wrote the formulas correctly? They look similar to the ones I put above, but even when I fix the parenthesis, it doesn't come out right.

Illuminator · 12-28-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EQAditu

[/i] Here is how it is calculated in EQ2:
5.0s / (1 + 0.144 + 0.04) = 4.22s

So you're saying that "Reduces cast time of spells by X percent." is to be interpreted the exact same way as "Increases Casting Speed of caster by X percent." That's all I needed to know, thanks.

Slippery · 12-28-2007, 06:41 PM

Reduces casting time = Increases cast speed of caster, Reduces spell casting time is the 50% is actually 100%.

For AA's where you have an AA that decreases casting speed that gets applied before casting speed buffs. So for like Ball of magma it would be (3 - .5) / (1 + 14.4 + 5 + 5) = 1.99 (Initial .5 from the Ball of Magma AA, 14.4 from agi, 5 from racial, 5 from staff of light). However even though you take off the initial from AA's before calculating casting speed you are still capped at half base speed (or 1.5 for BoM).

Illuminator · 12-28-2007, 06:47 PM

The newer item effect isn't worded well at all for what it does.

EQAditu · 12-28-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippery

Reduces casting time = Increases cast speed of caster, Reduces spell casting time is the 50% is actually 100%.

For AA's where you have an AA that decreases casting speed that gets applied before casting speed buffs. So for like Ball of magma it would be (3 - .5) / (1 + 14.4 + 5 + 5) = 1.99 (Initial .5 from the Ball of Magma AA, 14.4 from agi, 5 from racial, 5 from staff of light). However even though you take off the initial from AA's before calculating casting speed you are still capped at half base speed (or 1.5 for BoM).

Bleh, I don't know why most of the people in this thread are not giving formulas that can actually be used as shown. The ones in the code blocks I could not figure out at all. This particular one is mixing in percentages in without marking them percentages. Copy/Pasting it into my calculator gives something completely wrong. Even when I correct the example's decimal points, it doesn't display the exact same result.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerToy Calc

(3 - .5) / (1 + 14.4 + 5 + 5)
0.09842519685039370078740157480315
(3 - .5) / (1 + .144 + .05 + .05)
2.009646302250803858520900321543

Anyhow, it's obvious that different effect descriptions are written by different people. Reading effect list descriptions is almost an art, unfortunately. I can still link items like Orb of Truth and explode a few heads when they try to figure out what it does.