Originally Posted by Demented Penguin

I see the solution as being a resulting byproduct of the way the game has gone more than a class deficiency. The sk and pali still have their stregnths and weaknesses, it's that the content has been designed to circle around the warrior tanking methods with the crusaders abilities as back up for MA.

What needs to be done is rather than gimp/nerf the guardians and piss everyone off (which is NOT what we are advocating, Guapo1), nor buff the crusaders up to be the uber tank and open a whole new can of worms (which would be nice, but again, is NOT what we are advocating), but rather two things need to happen.

First, the crusaders need to have minor tweaks to balance us out due to the fact that we were completely overlooked in these buff ups that were done to the classes such as the guardians shield restriction removal on the mythical and what coercers are finally going to be getting here soon to name an couple of examples.

Secondly, once the classes are better balanced, the raid content needs to be designed so it doesn't require you have the guardian taunts, absorbs, and aa skill to survive it but rather make it so that the zones have mobs that require high skill players, not players with the magical skill that counters that type of mob perfectly.

Not sure exactly how this would be done now that the classes have gone down the paths that they have, but the problem lies more upon the fact that all mobs were created with equal standards. If they created multiple mobs that behave completely differently and are weak to different tanking aproaches and strategies, it would encourage people to use multiple tanking styles, which would in the end, make all tanks valuable.

For example, make a mob aoe attack back when damaged by a reposte, or make it strike through stoneskin abilities, or make it agro 3 times harder to leeching abilities (for the sk), etc. Give a certain set of abilities or buffs that make the mob snap agro much faster towards a class based on what abilities and fighting methods they focus on rather than just make the mobs all follow the general cookie cutter "more dps faster = better tanking" because lets face it; most tanks only focus on how they can dps harder, not how to play the agro system to their favor, nor how to use the mobs buffs against them, or anything else.

The raids these days just focus on that one bread and butter attack style that will own the mob, and it seems to always be more dps and more absorbing abilites = better tank. If the mob had something like the monk's mythical's effect, then it would shred a guardian in moments where as a raid force that played their stuns wisely would shred the mob no matter what class they used to tank.

When I personally think about what it should take to do a high rank raid zone, the first thing that comes to my mind would be "a mob that makes you stregnthen the weakest part of your class, so that only the most well rounded can succeed with ease." And personally, I'd love to see raid zones that play off of that concept.

Thats my 2c worth, although I'm pretty sure no one would like that especially since it would make many more tanks think and react to mobs fight to fight or at least alot more than they have to now.

Originally Posted by Istar

SK's Need An Attribute Revamp Seriously.. Reasoning?

SKs Gains right now go as.

STR = Weapon/CA gain / Mana gain
STA = HP gain
INT = Spell Dmg Gain /Mana gain
AGI = Nulled Avoidence Gain

Misc

Wis = Resist Gain..

As is Guards/Zerkers get

STR = Melee /CA gain / Mana Gain
STA = HP gain
AGI = Avoidence Gain

WIS = Resisst
INT = null


Numbers wise the Attributes STA/WIS are completly where they should be.

STR/INT though Is not. theres where the core DPS problem is comeing from, If you do the comparisons on both Classes DPS ratio useing the base of these numbers youll find out that SK's STR/INT Combined is scaleing the class the same way as Guards/Zerkers STR Hence As i pointed out to the devs SK's have no real DPS gain.. Especially if they have to take a hit on one of these stats.. AKA A gaurd With 700 str and an SK with 500int/700str or flip the numbers around the SK will still have lower overall base Damage output..

Now if we sit there and ignore this factor and decided Ok will just up the SK's overall DPS to compensate for this inbalance .. we will have tanking SK's Doing the proper damage over tanks, in raid settings... But we would have others in A pure DPS setting out parseing every other class in the game since our numbers will nearly sky rocket. it would be exploitable. Why ? Because we are takeing an sk with Tank gear setup which is STR STA AGI INT (Yes we Need AGI, Plus There is a real lack in Gear with just AGI/INT on it.. Esp tank gear.) boosting that past guards where they are at now.. Vs. an SK who will solely focus on STR/INT for dps..

The solution is to just reitemize it now and get it done with.. The only other steps are A. Patching by makeing sweeping changes to the Already fighter tank gear and adding INT (where does this leave pallies now ? ) B. Makeing changes to where the other fighers should desire INT/WIS more, that way classes wouldnt be sitting there focusing only on 3 stats. C. Makeing specialized seperate pally and sk gear for the entire game...

In the end the numbers are there, its just that the stats are not balanced. SK's should be seeing extra gains for haveing two seperate DPS stats not see it the same as another classes single stat... Its not like we have Two Tank stat gains off of just STA ...

As per post.. No we do not need dual wield that will just give the devs something more to nerf us on.

Originally Posted by Ower

Brawlers Gain more avoidance from Agi than the other fighters.
Warriors Gain more HP from STA than the other fighters.
Crusaders Gain more resists from Wis than the other fighters.

I have no idea for AGI and WIS atm. But the sta is changed so all Fighter classes gain the same HP from it.