The fix to crusaders being left in the dust for DPS... - Page 3

Faxon · 03-10-2008, 03:21 PM

dont forget guys if they changed the kite shield with firesong on it, that would mean changing maestro's flame to proc off spells as well, making it an extremely powerful weapon for furys to do dps with. change an effect, it gets changed across the board. think about these ideas before asking for them, it could have greater implications than you would expect. however, if they were to make the flame not usable by fury/warden, that would make it a fair fix imo, as furys dont need a dps boost

ed: firesong gives 98 damage per proc at 600 int

Xavion · 03-10-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deule

...You know that item that adds +CA and +melee crit, well we get half the increase that warriors will see because we are split 50/50 melee/spell. Same is true with +spell damage and +spell crit. However, what do you see on items, one way or the other...so being in the middle we always gain less than warriors from that same piece. Now that is fucked up...hell even the new player crafted shields which are pretty nice really bone us in the ass. Why do they make them proc just off of CA's? Why not make em proc off of CA's and spells?

OK, I will give you the argument about more balanced gear for str/int with spellcrit/spelldmg (I have seen the loot tables from many RoK nameds...they exist but are extremely rare and quite pricy on the broker). I also agree with you on the point that there should be more items/shields with effects that proc off spells instead of CA's.

HOWEVER, I keep cringing when people say things like "SK's are 50% melee/50% spells"... apparently somebody didn't read my post. Count your combat arts (actual combat arts), and get back to me on that one. It's more like 30% melee/70% spells for SK's. And the way the melee is nerfed anyways (even for those with 100% melee bonuses), why would you worry so much about it? How many hits do you really think you get off in an average fight between all the spells you're spamming? And how many of those actually hit?

All I'm saying is embrace the spellcaster side of the class because that's always gonna be where the meat of your DPS is... I wouldn't hold my breath for the devs to change melee for them.

Deule · 03-10-2008, 08:24 PM

As i stated before Xavion I do max my DPS and guess what the parser does not lie. There are not ways to buff our spell damage any more than what it is. When I say that 50% of my DPS comes from melee that includes auto attack...yes that is right just like all the other melee classes auto attack is a huge chunk of our dps alone...ranging from 35-45% approximately. So when I tell you that only 50% of my DPS comes from spells that is a fact of how SK dps is divided.

I would love it if my spells did a lot more DPS but the fact remains that they make up less than half of my DPS and trust me I am built for doing as much DPS as possible without sacrificing wearing plate armor.

Itemization for Crusaders is a complete joke and everybody knows it. 2h weapons are pieces of shit that nobody wants to use except...wait oh crusaders will use them because unlike every other melee class out there SOE gives us the shaft and shelves us into using them.

Also your point about spammin spells and DW'ing is kind of valid...except like the other melee classes all we would have to do is learn to time our auto attacks a little better to maximize our DPS...oh wait maybe that is why SK's are power whores atm....

Xavion · 03-10-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deule

As i stated before Xavion I do max my DPS and guess what the parser does not lie. There are not ways to buff our spell damage any more than what it is. When I say that 50% of my DPS comes from melee that includes auto attack...yes that is right just like all the other melee classes auto attack is a huge chunk of our dps alone...ranging from 35-45% approximately. So when I tell you that only 50% of my DPS comes from spells that is a fact of how SK dps is divided.

I would love it if my spells did a lot more DPS but the fact remains that they make up less than half of my DPS and trust me I am built for doing as much DPS as possible without sacrificing wearing plate armor.

Itemization for Crusaders is a complete joke and everybody knows it. 2h weapons are pieces of shit that nobody wants to use except...wait oh crusaders will use them because unlike every other melee class out there SOE gives us the shaft and shelves us into using them.

Also your point about spammin spells and DW'ing is kind of valid...except like the other melee classes all we would have to do is learn to time our auto attacks a little better to maximize our DPS...oh wait maybe that is why SK's are power whores atm....

I agree, I never cared for two-handers, especially when soloing or tanking. There's just not enough incentive to use them without losing defensive capabilities and/or effects from shields + one-handers. However, my point about spamming was also referring to the auto attacks in between the spellcasting. Our auto attacks plus our few CA's are not causing over 50% of my damage, at least not the way I play or am geared-up. And yes we are power whores, that is really my only argument for how we could be better.

Giralus · 03-11-2008, 01:10 AM

i think the simplest fix the dev's could do for SK's is to add one more line to both our Offensive stance and Defensive stance (this way they dont have to tweak every single spell/ability/aa,etc,,)

Offensive Stance " all Spell damage and Melle damage will be increased by 20 %, if a 2 handed weopon is equiped increase by 30 % , 1 spell will double attack 1 time a minute,

Defensive stance " 1/2 of all Sk's damage will return hate at a 2 points hate to 1 point damage(to make up for the large drop in DPS) , Sk will transfer 10 % of all incoming damage into a 5% power 5 % health increase , all spell casts will be 50 % harder to interupt

just a rough idea, but get's the point across. SK'S major issue's , these tweaks would help out,. and with proper itemization Sk's would be able to either DPS where they should be if they fully set up for it, or Tank anything with a minimal differance As they should be. there shouldn't be a Huge differance in DPS or Tankability when fully set up for either ( But there is and SK's are lacking in Both in ROK) as SOE stated " all tanks shall tank Equaly but by diffrenet methods "

i think our stances have always been weak, i think it's widely expressed on the Sk forums on flames and in official forums that 99% (there's always the 1 % that never has any problems at all ) of sk's have voiced there concerns and given constructive feedback on the issue's with our class.

(our mythical is another issue, but again i think the addition to our stances would help out and the mythical would only need a +Block/parry/etc,,,DPS increas, and Stats increased across the board and i think 90% of Sk's would be happy with it )

Tyirul · 03-11-2008, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zormik

you gotta be joking me. Pallies are THE easymode aggrotank. They can hold aggro from anything anywhere they want. Better then any other tank. They have utlity and now they also want to dps like a zerk/guardian?

Sorry but this sounds very silly to me. A decent pally can already dps quite nice. What's next, you guys want tos and stone sphere aswell?

Seriously if you look at the top guilds. They all want a pally for avatars. There's no tank that can handle adds and waves of adds like a paladin can. You guys are after guardians already the most desired tanks. No need to make pallies overpowered like guardians

Play one or shut the fuck up.

Nardaak · 03-11-2008, 04:10 AM

i swear to god if they ever give DW to a crusader im quiting, it fits no where with what a crusader is and ur bitching for absolutely nothing, if ur dps sucks, you fucking suck, yes our dps is lower than other tanks but we do have more utility. Oh god a guardian has more saves to keep him alive and this makes him more desirable for MT, cry some fucking more and reroll then.

Deule · 03-11-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nardaak

i swear to god if they ever give DW to a crusader im quiting, it fits no where with what a crusader is and ur bitching for absolutely nothing, if ur dps sucks, you fucking suck, yes our dps is lower than other tanks but we do have more utility. Oh god a guardian has more saves to keep him alive and this makes him more desirable for MT, cry some fucking more and reroll then.

Nardaak what kind of piece of shit are you? You are exactly that 1% that the above posters were talking about that say everything is fine and dandy. And as usual I go and check out your profile and like most of the people that respond like you their gear is a joke, I am assuming that your Paladin is an alt. Come and post when you are actually playing your Paladin in VP. Nothing like a shitty Paladin that completely relies on Amends to do everything for you. SK's don't have that easy mode agro, also SK's are offensive tanks, meaning we are supposed to be on the higher end of DPS when it comes to fighters. If you don't want to DPS more than STFU and stick to your 1h+shield and relying completely on another class to do all your work for you.

I do like the idea put forth about changing stances to be more useful, adding something that really makes using a 2h worth using like some kind of 30% DA when 2h is equipped would be nice...but than again classes that are DW'ing are buffing their DA up pretty high, and quad hitting is just insane for DPS. I really think giving crusaders the ability to DW would help out a lot and actually keep SK's from storing their epics in their bags most of the time...not to mention how fast it is to switch from DW to 1h+shield.

Giralus · 03-11-2008, 07:04 PM

realy depends on what changes they make to our Mythical , if they change it to work with our stances "in offensive will do 3X damage, double spell casts,etc, in defensive will utilize the Hate gain and increase Block/parry. etc,,, " if they Did a complete 360 and made it into a 2hander then we would be Fubared on DW anyway .

i realy would rather not DW , i have played an SK since release, and honestly i didn't want a BOW, when the devs first said we would be getting a New item for our Ranged slot i was excited, and thought the dev's would give crusaders something diffrent then just a Bow(was hoping for a Slingshot /chuckle) but they took the easy way and just let us use bows, i don't wan't the same thing done to our DPS, there are Many ways to give us a Boost without having to dual wield

i also dont want ANY ability that turns all my spells into CA, they turned my Inquis into a battlecleric and i very rarely play my inquis anymore, i know other's love the battlecleric and thats great, just Personaly it ruined the class for me

the addition's i suggested to stances i just made them up wyle i was writing the post, took me all of 5 minutes, i'm sure they dev's could put a little more effort and Creativity into it and make our stances help our class in the area's it lack's , and actualy give Sk's any reason at all to go into defensive stance and use 1 hand /shield

i also would like to point out that almost every SK i know, and almost every sk forum post i read , 98% of sk's always stay in Offensive stance, Unless they are getting ripped to shreads, then they TRY using defensive stance but it realy is very weak and doesn't give nearly enough Hate gain , lowers dps drasticly , and doesn't boost our survivability to any noticable degree = all negatives

also the additon's to stances i suggested were not to over the top, becuase SK's also need Proper itemization, so the additon's were ment to add to proper itemization, if the Dev's create "Alot" more Crusader Specific Gear and Weopons with our Skills and Stances in mind we would be able to bridge the large gap that has been created in rok.

Nardaak · 03-12-2008, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deule

Nardaak what kind of piece of shit are you? You are exactly that 1% that the above posters were talking about that say everything is fine and dandy. And as usual I go and check out your profile and like most of the people that respond like you their gear is a joke, I am assuming that your Paladin is an alt. Come and post when you are actually playing your Paladin in VP. Nothing like a shitty Paladin that completely relies on Amends to do everything for you. SK's don't have that easy mode agro, also SK's are offensive tanks, meaning we are supposed to be on the higher end of DPS when it comes to fighters. If you don't want to DPS more than STFU and stick to your 1h+shield and relying completely on another class to do all your work for you.

I do like the idea put forth about changing stances to be more useful, adding something that really makes using a 2h worth using like some kind of 30% DA when 2h is equipped would be nice...but than again classes that are DW'ing are buffing their DA up pretty high, and quad hitting is just insane for DPS. I really think giving crusaders the ability to DW would help out a lot and actually keep SK's from storing their epics in their bags most of the time...not to mention how fast it is to switch from DW to 1h+shield.

Wow congratz you looked at my heroic instance dps gear, yay! your a smart cookie.... lol my paladin an alt? Ive been playing since first phase of public beta you fucking twat, If you had any clue of the raiding paladins WW you would know who I am, your obviously pretty ignorant and stupid, I never said I dont want to do more dps but if your crying to change a CRUSADER into a DUAL WIELDING class then you are just fucktarded and know nothing about RPGs, if you want to Dual Weild for your dps roll a fucking warrior. Otherwise learn how to actually play your class and you should be able to keep up with the warriors on DPS.