The fix to crusaders being left in the dust for DPS... - Page 31

Ower · 04-23-2008, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel

Paladin Abilities
Attributes

Health

* 1 STA = 5 health

Power

* 1 STR = 2.5-2.6 power
* 1 WIS = 1.7-1.8 power (up from 0.8-0.9)

Shadowknight Abilities
10 STR = +x% combat art damage and +25.9 power @ level 70
10 INT = +x% spell damage and +17 power @ level 70
10 STA = 50 health
10 WIS = +28.6 to all resists

Bruiser/Monk, Guardian/Berserker Abilities
1 point of stamina gives 5 Health
1 point of wisdom gives ~3 resists
1 point of strength gives 4.9 power

* MAXIMUM = (player-level)*15+20 with diminishing returns over *10+20
* Level 50 = 770
* Level 60 = 920
* Level 70 = 1070
* Level 80 = 1220

Many start seeing lower benefit of stats at around 550 on a level 80 player then it becomes worse as the the

numbers come closer to 15*level plus 20 cap.

ALL FIGHTERS recieve the SAME BONUSES on STA for 5 health per sta point below softcap with diminishing returns(at 880 STA i think i have like 2 health or so per point additional)

ALL FIGHTERS recieve the SAME BONUSES on AGI for to hit bonus and basic avoidance(most contested avoidance versus epics)

ALL FIGHTERS recieve the SAME BONUSES on INT pertaining to bonus damage to procs they may have on them in groups and raids(adornment procs and imbuements also fall into this catagory too).

ALL FIGHTERS recieve the SAME BONUSES on WIS pertaining to increasing spell resist, the easy number is 3 points of resist versus 1 point of wisdom, but the closer number is 2.86 or so per wisdom point.

Just wanted to toss some real numbers out there so people are not using false info or making crazy assumptions, crusaders get power from 2 stats, but the power combined is still less than a single point of STR from the other classes and it was capped on total power we could have(i believe the finally fixed it).

Anymore the stats between fighters is smaller issue than the native buffs/abilities they have and the itemization they have to enhance their class's potential. If you need more info on parry/defense/reposte/block and base avoidance i can provide that also for the fighter classes...:-)

im glad that someone els pointed that out aswell! Ty steel!

Kuja · 04-23-2008, 08:15 PM

Quote:

* 1 STA = 5 health

1 STA = 6 health

jfantasy · 04-24-2008, 01:58 AM

add selected parse on the flame fight last night
All: (08:58) 7232246 | 13442.84 [wiz1-Fission-23550]
warlock 2367.11
pally 2098.84 -add tank
wiz1 2014.44
wiz2 1780.85
illu 1043.65
ass 1039.55
zerker 1005.68

boli · 04-24-2008, 03:45 AM

Just because the paladin parsed as they SHOULD doesn't mean they are fixed... just means your assasin and zerker are slacking.

1k each... they should be shot.

Even the wizzies are slacking.

Colcos~Firesword · 04-24-2008, 06:56 AM

All I gotta say is; Sony, give us a role on raids. I don't wanna be kinda sorta maybe tanks that could potentially off tank, sit in the caster group to "DPS" or just friggin not get invited to raids.

Give us purpose, give raid leaders a reason to say, "Hey, where is that Crusader, we need our crusader." as opposed to, "Sorry Mr. Crusader, we have 22 classes that fulfill the necessary roles in this raid, and they do it twice as good as you do, why don't you sit tonight, we'll work you in sometime soon."

Although that isn't a direct reflection on my personal experience, I see it happen quite often, I'm lucky, and I consider myself very good at my class. I do get the opportunity to raid, and I'm thankful for it.... but it makes me think, what do crusaders bring to the raid?

Raid-leader: What do Crusader's bring to the raid?
SK: We can tank!
Raid-leader: You could, unfortunately the guardian over there in RoK quested Armor has more defensibility, and holds aggro with ease. Oh yeah and hes gonna outparse you too.

SK: Oh... okay, Well then, We can Off tank right?
Raid-Leader: Well you could, but that berserker over there with the buckler spec and half your fabled gear can more easily pick up a mob when needed. He's using a buckler with half the protection, yet amazingly he can take a hit better than you can too. Not to mention, he's gonna do more DPS than you too.

SK: Well my Death march is sure to give the caster group a nice boost right? Relentless hunger for a couple spell procs, sweet right?
Raid-Leader: You call those buffs? Not to mention, If we put a predator in that spot, they will tripple your DPS, haste from the troub and illy, feral from our fury, procs and procs galore for their poisons.

While I doubt numbskull conversations like that take place, you see my point? Sony gave us a so called "Epic" AKA "my glorified paperweight" that tells us they want us to tank, sort of.

SONY, if you want us to tank, change our Defensive stance to add some shield effectiveness or AGI instead of friggin wisdom that barely does jack for our resists. Or if mitigation makes more sense for "Crusaders", let us mitigate a significant amount of damage that gives us ONE advantage over somebody.

SONY, if you want us to fill a support/DPS role, Give us buffs that actually matter to raiders, give us something that that really makes people want a sk/pally. Give us Double attack on our AA tree, give us group melee/spell crit increase, give us a way to generate/feed mana in raids. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, make our epic 2h clicky, and increase our effectiveness while using a 2handed weapon.

I don't want to be an overpowered class that everyone starts to flame even more so because now they feel we've been rewarded for nothing.. and they didn't get squat. I just want to know what role SOE intends us to fill, and while you tell us.... excentuate it, improve it, make it obvious.

Orochan · 04-24-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfantasy

add selected parse on the flame fight last night
All: (08:58) 7232246 | 13442.84 [wiz1-Fission-23550]
warlock 2367.11
pally 2098.84 -add tank
wiz1 2014.44
wiz2 1780.85
illu 1043.65
ass 1039.55
zerker 1005.68

Lol wtf is this shit?

jfantasy · 04-24-2008, 07:53 AM

no idea for what a class should be in this fight, but i am sure pally can do well in fights of this type.

Colcos~Firesword · 04-24-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfantasy

no idea for what a class should be in this fight, but i am sure pally can do well in fights of this type.

sighs*

Deule · 04-24-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colcos~Firesword

All I gotta say is; Sony, give us a role on raids. I don't wanna be kinda sorta maybe tanks that could potentially off tank, sit in the caster group to "DPS" or just friggin not get invited to raids.

Give us purpose, give raid leaders a reason to say, "Hey, where is that Crusader, we need our crusader." as opposed to, "Sorry Mr. Crusader, we have 22 classes that fulfill the necessary roles in this raid, and they do it twice as good as you do, why don't you sit tonight, we'll work you in sometime soon."

Although that isn't a direct reflection on my personal experience, I see it happen quite often, I'm lucky, and I consider myself very good at my class. I do get the opportunity to raid, and I'm thankful for it.... but it makes me think, what do crusaders bring to the raid?

Raid-leader: What do Crusader's bring to the raid?
SK: We can tank!
Raid-leader: You could, unfortunately the guardian over there in RoK quested Armor has more defensibility, and holds aggro with ease. Oh yeah and hes gonna outparse you too.

SK: Oh... okay, Well then, We can Off tank right?
Raid-Leader: Well you could, but that berserker over there with the buckler spec and half your fabled gear can more easily pick up a mob when needed. He's using a buckler with half the protection, yet amazingly he can take a hit better than you can too. Not to mention, he's gonna do more DPS than you too.

SK: Well my Death march is sure to give the caster group a nice boost right? Relentless hunger for a couple spell procs, sweet right?
Raid-Leader: You call those buffs? Not to mention, If we put a predator in that spot, they will tripple your DPS, haste from the troub and illy, feral from our fury, procs and procs galore for their poisons.

While I doubt numbskull conversations like that take place, you see my point? Sony gave us a so called "Epic" AKA "my glorified paperweight" that tells us they want us to tank, sort of.

SONY, if you want us to tank, change our Defensive stance to add some shield effectiveness or AGI instead of friggin wisdom that barely does jack for our resists. Or if mitigation makes more sense for "Crusaders", let us mitigate a significant amount of damage that gives us ONE advantage over somebody.

SONY, if you want us to fill a support/DPS role, Give us buffs that actually matter to raiders, give us something that that really makes people want a sk/pally. Give us Double attack on our AA tree, give us group melee/spell crit increase, give us a way to generate/feed mana in raids. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, make our epic 2h clicky, and increase our effectiveness while using a 2handed weapon.

I don't want to be an overpowered class that everyone starts to flame even more so because now they feel we've been rewarded for nothing.. and they didn't get squat. I just want to know what role SOE intends us to fill, and while you tell us.... excentuate it, improve it, make it obvious.

This is exactly what I would like SOE to do. Basically, pick the niche in a raid where a SK owns it. They did this with the monk by giving them a great utility with their raid buff, so they could do it with the SK also. Basically give us something that makes SK's wanted on raids as much as monks are. Something where the slight loss in DPS from a DPS class is not that great when weighted with the DPS and whatever else a SK brings. I would love to see some type of group buff from AA's in the wisdom line that gave like spell DA. Something mages scream for, but something that is not too overpowered. 15% spell DA would be nice.

Personally, I would love to have SOE lean towards the side of giving SK's more utility in a raid. The MT spot is well secured by guardians, and even if we could contend guilds are way too used to this spot. The OT spot is also hard to get into because you have Paladins/Zerks/Guards all competing and good candidates for the position, and since RoK pretty much requires 1 OT at most, that is a lot of fighters competing for that spot. I would love to see the SK in a Utility/2nd OT spot. Somebody that brings nice utility to raise a raids DPS/Survivability, much like a monk.

Kaylee · 04-25-2008, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deule

I would love to see some type of group buff from AA's in the wisdom line that gave like spell DA. Something mages scream for, but something that is not too overpowered. 15% spell DA would be nice.

Best idea in this thread so far.

Also, nerf guardians.