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Old 03-14-2008, 05:10 PM  
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Default Basic-level Melee DPS guide, needs feedback

This guide following here was written, at first, in an attempt to explain to my RPing guild (don't kill me, I'm from AB and just wierd like that) how melee DPS works, since many began asking. Over time, as I moved to a raid guild, I wrote continuously on this guide, and one examn period later, the result was approximately what follows below.
Now, some of it is bound to be inaccurate, and the guide was never really completed, but I wanted to post it here in present form for some feedback, hopefully to correct faulty information. The guide is intended to be more or less universal, and not go into issues specific to one class only; I suppose it bears a clear mark of my main character being a monk, though.

Anyway, fire away, I'll edit the guide as necessary to make up for misunderstandings. As a matter of course, feel free to steal/copy-paste/otherwise misuse the guide if happen to be useful to you.
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:10 PM  
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Default Re: Basic-level Melee DPS guide, needs feedback

Part 1: Overview

Hello there!

The following is intended as a brief (but knowing me, we'll see how that part goes) guide to how melee damage modifiers work in this game, intended for melee classes. It will be by far the most relevant in a raid setting. The kind of optimisation covered here will only rarely be necessary for most group settings (but it definately helps).
This is not a guide that you pick up, read, and go out and improve your DPS signifigantly. Rather, these are tools that I hope will help you see what you can do to improve yourself. If you want much of anything out of this, a calculator is likely a good idea - fortunately windows comes with one installed and it's what I've always used for these things.
((Yes, omg, I do math to play a computer game. Nerd factor +10.))

First, some terminology; what do all these modifiers mean anyway?


Melee crit chance: This is a percentile chance to inflict some extra damage. It is the only damage modifier that affects both Combat Arts, procs and autoattacks.
- The added damage on a critical is calculated as follows: Whatever damage would otherwise be done (after str and DPS modifier, but procs are not included; they can crit on their own) + 30%. However, under no circumstance can a crit end up doing less damage than the normal maximum damage of the weapon you are using after strength and DPS modifiers + 1. In other words, if you have a weapon that can do 1-404 damage (yes, something like that did exist in t7) then on average, you will get more out of a crit than if you use a weapon with a damage spread of 150-250.
The maximum crit chance the mechanics of the game allows is 100%, reachable to my knowledge only by mystics with a certain non-raid spec.


+ Damage to Combat Arts: This factor used to have all sorts of crazy modifiers to find out what it actually did. No longer. Now, it does what it says. Every combat art you toss out get this modified damage to both minimum and maximum damage. If you use a damage-over-time effect, it factors in with the first bit of damage at full effect, and that's it.
Be aware that if you throw an area-of-effect combat art (or an encounter-wide one), the damage is divided by three (so +90 damage becomes +30 damage) but on every single mob you hit with the combat art.
- This modifier exists in some specialised versions where it affects only one combat art. The effects are as above, but obviously one for that one combat art.
This effect used to stack with crits and DPS modifiers (that is to say, the +damage was applied before the 30% of a crit and the percentile increase for DPS on autoattacks). I am unsure how this works after the recent live update.
One important thing to note here is that +combat art damage cannot boost the base damage (after str and possible crits) by more than 50% - This means that you may bee the minimum damage stop going up on your combat arts while the maximum continues to improve.

Haste: This used to be relatively simple. Ish. One point of haste = 1% faster recharge on autoattacks. Note the formulation, it is important. This is NOT "your delay will be diminished by x%" - so a 50% haste is not double attack speed.
100% haste is double attack speed (2.4 delay becomes 1.2). Theoretically (you cannot actually get it), 200% haste would be triple attack speed (2.4 delay becomes 0.8). You get the idea.
Furthermore, this is now on a diminishing returns scale. This means that the points of haste you have is not the same as your haste %. Pull up your character window ("p" on most setups) and mouse over haste. It will give you the real value at the closest percentage (100.4% becomes 100% etc).
The formula for figuring out your new delay is:
<original delay>/(1+<haste percetage>). So at 30% real haste it is <old delay>/1.30.
This is all very bothersome to figure out, but haste is exceedingly important due to Combat art/autoattack timing. I'll get back to that in a seperate post. It also increases your chance of seeing a proc go off for this reason, as will be explained under procs in this post.
The maximum haste the game allows is 200 points, which translates into 125% faster delay, or 1.25 in the formula above.
Be aware, as this may seriously hamper your autoattack damage output, that the listed values on the persona tab in the game are very inaccurate. A value listed as, say, 0.7 can be anywhere from 0.65 to 7.49 - this is probably accurate enough if you are running slow weapons, but it is utterly insufficient if you have weapons hasted down below 2.0 seconds. All in all, I'd recommend to pull out your calculator and find the accurate delay yourself.
It should go without saying, but be aware that high haste means you hit the mob more often (duh). This may cause you problems in the case of damage shields, riposting mobs, mobs that proc heals on being hit (drusella) or the like. Keep an eye out for this, especially if you are using weapons that come with a low delay and dualwielding (ugh, monk speaking on this end).


DPS: This modifier has a text like "adds x damage per second". This is wildly misleading. What this effect in fact does is that it adds a percentile modifier to all autoattack damage (not combat arts damage). Again, this modifier is on a diminishing returns system similar to what you find with haste. You can find your true DPS modifier by mousing over the entry right next to the haste on your character tab (again, "p" on the keyboard for most).
Now, DPS modifier seems pretty similar to haste in that it increases the damage output of autoattacks, it is even on the same formula for diminishing returns as haste. However, it does not affect weapon delay, and is therefore not at all the same.
The formula for calculating modified damage is: <original damage> + <original damage> x <DPS modifier percentage>.
The maximum possible DPS modifier is 200 points or 125%, which is 1.25 in the formula above.


Procs: This is a broad term for the effects you have that, on either using autoattacks, combat arts, taking damage or meditating on your navel (okay, not really, but some of these get very creative with their conditions for going off) will "proc" and have an added effect. Many of these deal straight damage to the mob you were hitting, some heal yourself, give you a ward, makes you grow smaller or large, or something similarily strange.
A few things to note about procs: These things come from all sorts of odd places. Other classes casting a buff on you, your AA lines, items you wear and so on and so forth.
Also: Some of these procs will deal damage to an encounter, or an area near you. Be aware that the normal immunity to damage given to mesmerized opponenets does not apply here. If the proc goes off and hits the thing, it wakes up.
Since this entry is about Melee damage modifiers, let's take a look at the proc classes doing this:
The most common proc class over all goes off on autoattacks a set number of times per minute, and deal some kind of damage to whatever you hit, possibly others as well. This "goes off so-and-so times per minute" means that an average amount of attacks per minute with your weapon is calculated (if you have 2.0 delay on your weapon, that's 30 autoattacks per minute, so a proc that would normally go off 3.0 times per minute has a 10% chance of doing so per autoattack).
All of this is calculated, which is important, before haste is applied. So if you have 20% haste, not only will you autoattack 20% faster, you should also see 20% more procs per minute (I'm hearing rumours they changed this, and will have to look on my parses to check).
If a proc going off on an autoattack has a listed %-chance of going on, it is supposing you are using a 3.0 delay weapon. If you have a faster weapon, it will have a lesser chance of proccing per swing, if you've a slower it will be greater. 5% chance to proc on autoattacks equals around 1.0 procs per minute. This %-based measuring is however an old form of measuring proc chance on autoattack that is being left behind nowadays.
There is much more to be said on procs, but I shall have to do so elswhere. A few noteworthy factors, though, is:

Proc-chance increasers: To my knowledge three classes in the game can get this buff to cast on others (dirge and templar groupwide 20%, mystic single target 3%). What it does is essentially that it raises the chance of any proc you have on you going off by 20%. This does not mean that a 5% proc becomes 25% with a 20% increase. It becomes 6%.
However, with as many procs as you can have on you at any given time on a raid, this actually makes a tremendous difference - especially if you happen to be grouped with both a dirge and a templar.

Also, note the possibility of cascading procs. There are procs in the game that have a certain chance of going on on a "successful attack". These procs cannot proc themselves, but they can and sometimes will be procced by other procs. They can then in turn proc other procs that go off on successful attacks. In other words, it is quite possible to see a "string" of procs go off from, say, the same autoattack. This makes calculating the usefulness and viability of these procs quite difficult.
- Again, there are rumours pertaining to this now being outdated and "successful attack" now only referring to autoattacks, combat arts and spells. For myself, I do not have enough proc gear of this kind of really play around with it. If you do, please kick up a log and investigate - it'll make little difference to me, but it may well be important for other melee classes.

So far pure terminology. I will get around to explain how all of this works together in practice at a later time in this thread... But for now, the above must be enough rambling on game mechanics for one day.

Projects I have in mind for this thread (whenever I get around to writing it all down) includes:
- Itemisation for melee classes in general (items all melee DPS classes can use).
- Haste, delay calculations and "timing CAs".
- Your friendly guide to all the frickin' procs and buffs out there the other classes can cast on us or the group.
- Charms, potions, signets and other wierd clickies from a melee DPSers perspective.

If you've other requests or suggestions for changes (some of my information may be off, for instance), toss me a PM or start a thread of requests or somesuch. Please do not post in this particular thread unless the intent is providing more information to help people calculate melee DPS.
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:11 PM  
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Default Re: Basic-level Melee DPS guide, needs feedback

Part 2: Timing autoattacks and combat arts

For some Melee DPSers, autoattacks form an enormous part of their damage. As a monk, in my current setup (mostly KoS instanced gear, DPS specced, t8 ad3 spells mostly), I sit around 65% of my damage coming directly from autoattacks, with procs taking up a not insignifigant part of the remaining damage on some encounters. to give you one example.

One absolutely critical factor to consider to understand and maximize melee DPS is that of timing CAs. Basically, it goes like this:
When you cast a combat art, it has a casting time and a recovery time. For many combat arts, this is 0.5 seconds for both respectively, landing a combat art's combined time on 1.0 seconds. Some deviate from this, but it seems to be the norm across all melee DPS classes.
If you are casting a combat art, or recovering from having cast one, you cannot land an autoattack. Instead, said autoattack lands only after the recovery time of your combat art has ended.

So, to give an example of a bad setup, if you have a weapon with a 1.2 delay (such as the scepter of destruction, deathtoll, let's assume you've no haste) and your combat arts take 1 second to cast after all modifiers (they rarely will, see below for specifics), and you spam combat arts, your will get in trouble. Point in case:
An autoattack goes off, and immediately after, you hit a combat art. 1 second passes, the combat art is over, you have the next CA in line and begin casting it. 0.2 seconds later, your autoattack should go off... But you're in the middle of casting a combat art, so it can't. Instead it waits for fully another 0.8 seconds before it lands. So instead of over swing every 1.2 seconds, you will get one every 2.0 seconds - That's missing out on a great deal of potential autoattack damage.
In other words, you should time your autoattacks so they are always landing in the spot between your combat arts - this is virtually impossible - or so that they are very, very slightly faster than your autoattacks and thus wait in line for a very short time before going off. Finally, failing this, if your autoattacks cannot be timed otherwise, you should get used to "let the autoattack cycle" - that is to say, cast a combat art, and then wait for the autoattack to go off before casting another combat art. This takes a bit of getting used to.


In order to time this correctly, however, you first need to calculate your haste. Be aware that there are temporary buffs that will increase your haste... But let's ignore those for now, and I'll get back to them later. You should have a good idea what you usually end up in a group with on a raid. The following buffs makes for a signifigant modification on your haste and are always up as long as the one casting them is alive:
Trouby: I forget the name, but groupwide haste buff.
Illusionist: Rapidity, single target.
Monk: Swift Calm, raidwide, 22.
Count in the ones you should be affected by under "normal" raid circumstances in the calculation below.

Now, I have covered how to calculate your weapon's actual delay in the post before this one, but the formula is this:
<real weapon delay> = <listed weapon delay> * <possible Dual wield penalty> / (1 + <haste percentage>).
If you are dual wielding, the penalty, applied separately to each weapon, is a 33% longer delay, so multiply their listed delay by 1.33 - that's the <possible Dual wield penalty>. If you are not DWing, ignore this entry.
The other factors should be fairly self explanatory.
Let's say you're DWing 2.5 delay weapons on 130 haste on a raid. That's 107% real haste: <real delay> = 2.5 * 1.33 / 1 + 1.07 = ~1.6063.

You should now get your combat art time as close to this figure as at all possible.
Your combat art time is <casting time> + <recovery time> - each of these can be buffed individually, so let's treat them as such:

Casting time:
Also received temporary buffs here and there. Again, let's ignore those for now, and I'll get back to them later on. The permanent buffs are:
Bards: Allegro, groupwide, 1% to 8% - most bards I've seen run this on 8%. This is an AA ability - if the bard has Don't Kill the Messenger, he also has allegro. On SF raids, it seems reasonable that you will usually be in the same group as a bard.
Monk: Swift Calm, 13.1% at master 1, t7. The t8 ad3 is worse, and master 1 on t8 is 14.4%. As of right now, no monk in SF has this mastered. This may change, but calculate with t7 masters for now.

Add up the total casting time reduction, and calculate real casting time as follows: <original casting time> / (1 + <casting time reduction percentage> = <real casting time>

- If you inspect the combat art while under the effects of these abilities, it does show you the altered value, with two decimals' accuracy. That will usually be sufficient, but run this calculation to be sure in any case.

Recovery time: Usually 0.5 seconds, this is time not spent casting the combat art, but where you can do nothing else. Recovery increasers exist, but no permanent buffs are in place outside personal buffs. If you run a brawler or a rogue, the agility lines will allow you to modify this. Look up your individual AA abilities for more detail.

Be aware that recovery time is not the same thing as reuse time, a point that confuses some.

The correct formula for calculating recovery time is:
<original recovery time> / (1 + <recovery speed increase percentage>) = <real recovery time>

- If you inspect the combat art while under the effects of these abilities, it does show you the altered value, with two decimals' accuracy. That will usually be sufficient, but run this calculation to be sure in any case.



Now to make things much more complicated:

Using these basic tools, you should be able to time your combat arts and autoattacks to work together under the permanent buffs you will usually run with on a raid. However, it should here be noted that there are temporary buffs that will increase haste, casting speed, recovery speed or any combination of the three. This will mess up the otherwise neatly fitting numbers.

Buffs where this becomes a problem (this will be an expanding list):
Instinct, fury single target buff, procs haste on autoattack.
Death match, Shadowknight groupwide temporary buff, increases casting speed and haste.
Divine Recovery, Cleric groupwide temporary buff, increases recovery speed and casting speed (unsure on this one, cleric input wanted).
Cacophony of blades, bard temporary groupwide buff, increases haste and gives an automatic proc on autoattacks (called blade chime).
Jester's Cap, toubadour single target temporary buff, increases casting speed and recovery speed.

For all of the above, while they are active, be aware that timing autoattacks correctly becomes difficult. Learning to work around it correctly will provide a large bonus spike damage, while playing incorrectly while some of them run may actually decrease damage.

In general on haste buffs: Usually, you will be casting two, three or even four combat arts before your autoattack would fit in. Learn how much these buffs that give haste changes your autoattack speed, how many CAs you can still fit in, and how long you have to then wait for the autoattack to go off. This is difficult, and with classes you usually never get buffs from, it's probably not worth it in the first place - and the fury's instinct buffs does not give you a warning as to when it goes off, making it virtually impossible to keep an eye on it.
However, to some extent this can be practiced. Blade chime, at the very least, should be something every player of a melee class worth his salt can work with casting combat arts through, as long as he or she is not using very fast weapons.
Be aware that no matter how badly you do, temporary buffs that only increase haste will, at least, never actually lower your DPS output - you can however negate the gain from it by not playing properly while it is up.

Casting- and reocvery speed buffs: Again, this is a matter of getting an idea of how many CAs you can now fit into the autoattack cycle, it may be more than before, you may simply have to wait a bit before continuing the cast chain, it depends on the size of the buff and the speed of the weapon you are using. Often, you will get very little out of these buffs; they help casters much more. If nothing else, however, you may not want to spam CAs while they are up; doing so may decrease your damage output as you delay autoattacks.

So far as general guide to autoattack timing. Individual calculations to your class and group setup is for yourself to make - but this is the single point aside from itemization that often seperates a good melee DPS character from a mediocre one. I can only recommend experiementing with it. You can probably do the calculations on correct setup with permanent buffs outside the raids, it's pure math really, nothing much more to it.
As for the temporary buffs, I can only recommend running a parser and keeping an eye out for the results while you experiment with them. Be aware what these buffs do, try to adjust to playing under them, and this should make a difference on the parse.
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:16 PM  
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Default Re: Basic-level Melee DPS guide, needs feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hidge View Post
Jester's Cap, toubadour single target temporary buff, increases casting speed and recovery speed.
Incorrect, it increases reuse speed by 50%. There could be other stuff in there that's wrong but that stood out on a fast scan of it.
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:52 PM  
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Default Re: Basic-level Melee DPS guide, needs feedback

It's a great idea, very valuable, but I would suggest making it more brief, more readable, cut out the unneccessary verbiage

For example...

Melee Crit
  • % Chance of critical hit, doing more damage
  • Melee Crit stacks
  • Melee Crit has a hard cap of 100
  • Because of the way Melee Crit works, the ratio of minimum damage to maximum damage increases the yield of Melee Crit. For example, 50-100 is the same as 100-200, while 25-125 will yield extra damage. See this thread (link)
Haste
  • Increases the frequence of your autoattack
  • Haste on equipment does not stack. The highest value from your gear is taken.
  • Haste has a softcap and a hardcap of [think it's 200? Which equals about 125% haste? Something like that).
Attack Speed
  • Increases the frequency of your autoattack
  • Not to be confused with Haste
  • Attack Speed stacks, essentially adding to your haste.
You get the idea
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Old 03-15-2008, 07:50 PM  
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Default Re: Basic-level Melee DPS guide, needs feedback

*Edit* Wtf am I talking about? It's late, I've had a long day

Last edited by Shackleton1; 03-15-2008 at 07:54 PM.
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