Balanced classes = Normalized DPS - Page 3

TANGARTH · 04-01-2008, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faxon

or hell fucking starcraft dude. starcraft was the very first RTS game to have more than 2 races, and to top it off it is one of the most balanced RTS games ever. 2/3 of the people on battle.net these days are still playing starcraft, with most of the rest playing diablo 2

When I used to play ladder matches I distinctly remember protoss being banned....
but I still agree generally with what you're saying

Flaming Homo · 04-01-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendanbar

Maybe you shouldn't assume that you can burn everything down. Bards that are good at kiting own the crap out of stuff, they're the main reason for half of the ranged shit on general v'deers :P

I'm not there yet. You missed the part where I said I'm leveling him up. And I know better than to think that bards can burn through mobs. The problem is so often asshats post nonsense about how any class can easily run around soloing when they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. When it comes to soloing, all classes are not created equal.

T-Assassin · 04-01-2008, 08:39 PM

What i see it boiling down to, is how the class is played and the situation you are in.

i've solo'd several things on my dirge, that i couldn't on my bruiser, and vice versa. just depended on the situation. (i.e. i solo'd the entire encounter in BBM for the charm slot item as a 32 dirge, when i couldn't as a 35 bruiser....kiting the entire time.)

i've heard people tell me beserker sucks as MT compared to guardian(even paladin). yet, when we beat maiden's w/ a group of 5 (beserker, bruiser(me), brigand, fury, and templar). When only a day before we couldn't even get past sandstorm w/ a guardian, bruiser(me), templar(same), fury(same), brigand(same), and a coercer! it made me realize that if you actually KNOW your class and play it WELL, each class can be dangerous...that 'serker was pushin 2k+ DPS and holding agro, pulling adds, and just generally kickin ass like no one i have ever seen before!

and, the guardian was a moron, and the coercer couldn't even mezz Sandy's adds.

another HUGE item of consideration is who you play with, too. getting familiar with peoples playstyles can make quite a bit of difference. knowing weaknesses, strengthes, and tendencies is important (not to mention group make-up. gimme a dirge and illy and my DPS goes thru the roof!)

i'm quite happy with the "balance" of classes, atm. sure, there are some things that could be improved, skill of the player being the main one.

"Know your role, and shut your mouth" -The Rock (and learn to play your toon)

BrightMorn · 04-01-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faxon

or hell fucking starcraft dude. starcraft was the very first RTS game to have more than 2 races, and to top it off it is one of the most balanced RTS games ever. 2/3 of the people on battle.net these days are still playing starcraft, with most of the rest playing diablo 2

Might I point you to Dune 2.... I loved that game when it came out.

The point is still valid, though 3 and 24 are vastly different... and your not really balancing them against each other. Your balancing the classes in how they do against another entity. I don't see how you can have balanced classes when your encounters are um... poor.

Ower · 04-01-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Assassin

What i see it boiling down to, is how the class is played and the situation you are in.

i've solo'd several things on my dirge, that i couldn't on my bruiser, and vice versa. just depended on the situation. (i.e. i solo'd the entire encounter in BBM for the charm slot item as a 32 dirge, when i couldn't as a 35 bruiser....kiting the entire time.)

i've heard people tell me beserker sucks as MT compared to guardian(even paladin). yet, when we beat maiden's w/ a group of 5 (beserker, bruiser(me), brigand, fury, and templar). When only a day before we couldn't even get past sandstorm w/ a guardian, bruiser(me), templar(same), fury(same), brigand(same), and a coercer! it made me realize that if you actually KNOW your class and play it WELL, each class can be dangerous...that 'serker was pushin 2k+ DPS and holding agro, pulling adds, and just generally kickin ass like no one i have ever seen before!

and, the guardian was a moron, and the coercer couldn't even mezz Sandy's adds.

another HUGE item of consideration is who you play with, too. getting familiar with peoples playstyles can make quite a bit of difference. knowing weaknesses, strengthes, and tendencies is important (not to mention group make-up. gimme a dirge and illy and my DPS goes thru the roof!)

i'm quite happy with the "balance" of classes, atm. sure, there are some things that could be improved, skill of the player being the main one.

"Know your role, and shut your mouth" -The Rock (and learn to play your toon)

In Heroic instances and stuff it really doesent matter what tank class you have. And guards beats zerks in raid MT. You really dont need block and ToS for heroic instance (if you group doesent suck). And many classes have a thing they are good at. sadly we have to many classes so some get left in the dust.

T-Assassin · 04-01-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ower

In Heroic instances and stuff it really doesent matter what tank class you have. And guards beats zerks in raid MT. You really dont need block and ToS for heroic instance (if you group doesent suck). And many classes have a thing they are good at. sadly we have to many classes so some get left in the dust.

i guess for raiding that holds true more than anything...

i know, i played a bruiser

but, if raiding balance is the specific issue, i cannot argue there, since i lack the experience.

again, if it's full spectrum(not just raiding), i still believe the player can make/break the DPS issues.

when i was STR specced, i topped instance parses 90% of the time...i thought, "shit, either i'm that damn good, or those guys suck".

come to find out, it was a mix of the two. since i lack the raid gear, my DPS potential is hampered, but not making me useless.

then, grouping with some people that actually knew how to play their toons (illy parsin 2-3k in CoA, Gaigex parsed some shit like 4k+ ZW in Shard of Fear, Icelandic guy (brig) parsed 3.2k (non-fabled) in CoA, VoES, Maidens)

made me realize that ALOT of people just plain suck at playin their toons!

Zormik · 04-02-2008, 02:56 AM

It's only in raiding you will really see the big differences between what classes are capable off. Only when chars are pushed to their limits you'll see where one class starts to shine and where the other one completely falls apart.

Hell in heroic content you don't even need a tank by example, just bring a rogue and that's good enough.

Illuminator · 04-02-2008, 03:28 AM

Most raid encounters that push chars to their limits only do so in very very few arbitrary dimensions. You get an incomplete picture and your adjustments based on that only end up making things even weirder.

Darkniss · 04-02-2008, 09:28 AM

There is class balance in Eq2.

After every Update/nerf another class gets to be uber, until the next update/nerf, then a different class gets the spotlight.

They have adjusted game mechanics so much, and class definitions so much that it will now be impossible to have any balance. If I had paid enough attention it would have been fun to track which classes was uber and what update/nerf made them great, or knocked them down.

Bellabutton · 04-02-2008, 10:16 AM

"In a raid perspective you are not far behind the assassin. wizard and assassin are pretty much neck and neck. The ranger is right behind them with the swashbuckler. In the raids its like almost perfect balance how they line up." - Aerodick on Ranger DPS

Dev quotes like that one give the impression the dev's are trying to balance classes against each other instead of against the game. This leads to people forgetting balance needs to encompess more than just dps.

Balance should look at:

Survivability
Utility
Ease of Play
DPS
Desirability
Fun Factor