aslan132

that was exactly my point in this thread. great responses so far, im surprised to see 3 pages, i love it. my original copmplaint is that there should never be normalized DPS. Utility classes like rogues will always be needed for successful raids for debuffing. preds and sorcerers dont provide those debuffs, or the buffs of say bards/enchanters. thats why they should be dpsing the highest. sure they top the parses, but the range is decreasing. at the start of the game, they were T1 DPS, noone could chance at beating them. now without the EXACTLY perfect setup, rogues are killing parses and matching or beating T1. Summoners arent far behind and on grp encounters sometimes even top them. Sure you see it more on raids, but isnt that the point. if devs are normalizing classes based on raids, where a pally can outparse a ranger, why wouldnt you want more pallys who can provide oh-shit heal utility when needed. why have an assassin when you can have a bunch of brawlers to just feign when things dont go your way. balance shouldnt be my dps vs yours, its what can you provide. if you play a bard and are bitching that predators kick you ass on parses, i say STFU they are supposed to. you want to parse like one, roll one.

look around the servers atm. look at the declining numbers. you want to know why, its because people like you that bitch about "why is your class better than mine" and the more devs try to "fix" a system that wasnt broke, the more EVERYONES unhappy. play the class you like to play and dont compare yours to mine. make comparisons within classes, not cross-classes and STFU!!!

Darkniss

LOL, how can you strive for balance, and not compare classes.

Example: Illiusionist right now are beating wizards in a lot of fights, and they are by far have some of the most utility. So which is broke? Ill's or wizards?

Ower

Illu is. since its not really a pure dps class.

Flaming Homo

Did you forget to take your meds today?

aslan132

Neither....both...either. Depends on how you want to see, and the fix thats implemented. IF you like the numbers wizzys are putting out and dont want them doing more, the its the illy thats broke. Decrease them. If it doesnt matter what the actual number is, as long as wizzys are higher, then buff THEM. They are broke. If you want their numbers to remain approx the same, then you need to add utility to wizzys or take some from illys. NO matter how you look at it, there isnt a balance currently. Why play a wiz when you can meet the numbers on an illy but be more useful not just to your grp but the raid as a whole. The point of a pure DPS class is that not only should they top dps parses, they should top it by a significant margin. Flame it if you want, but there damn well better be a reason to play one. If im going to give up my utility and not provide buffs/debuffs, i better be pwning anyone that does!!!

aslan132

And to take it to the next stage. Assassins should not be outparsing wizzys. And if you think they arent, you are playing with an ass that doesnt know his class. Wizzy survability is much less (and i mean extremely) considering they wear toilet paper vs chain. They should be topping Asses, but a much smaller margin, but top none-the-less

Splorch

This is where i'll disagree with you. I play a brawler so dont pull the well thats just your class and you want it to be the best card.

Assassins and wizards should be on = terms as far as DPS goes(although depending on certain battles either one or the other will have higher chances at successfully topping the parse). The reason for this is although wizzies do wear cloth, your welcome to parse yourself at a distance. My main back in the day was a wizzy so i know that most wizzies do get up close and personal with mobs sometimes, but on fights where mobs are constantly running around, AOE stun/stifling, or that have other control abilities based upon proximity, the assassin HAS to be standing toe to toe and HAS to some times take a shot. When it comes to these battles a wizard on the other hand can sit back and nuke away and deaggro as needed, without even coming into contact with damage at any point during the battle. There is a trade off to each one of those classes, but they should be on equal terms for DPS.

Bellabutton

Once again someone taking a miopic view of two similar roled classes. So lets look at wiz and assassin with a few more feilds.

lets rate each in a 1-5 for each of the following. 1 being best and 5 being worst (complared to all general class types)

Survivability -
wizard - 5
assissin - 3

Ease of Play -
wizard - 1
assassin - 3

DPS
Wizard - 2
Assassin - 1

Soloability
Wizard - 1
Assassin - 3


total -
wizard - 9
Assassin - 10


Just by this they seem pretty balanced but ass is ahead in total gameplayability.

Two other general game balance factor are more subjective so i didn't rate them.

Desirability
Fun Factor

Also remember they are balancing classes for all aspects of play not only end-game raid content.

Pinski

Wizards with enough stoneskin gear have higher survivability than an assassin does now.

__________________

aslan132

ok, this makes since to me. and i concede the point between sorcerers and preds (which are and should be close to each other in dps, particularly examples shown of ass vs wizzy).

But what about the other posts about rogues and chanters and even summoners winning them out. should such a class that already provides other useful utility, and i dare say "required classes" like swashys and illy be putting up the same, or better in many cases, numbers as the not so useful "pure dps" classes. the draw of these classes was that thier numbers should be higher than ANY others. Everyone plays thier role, as this is a team effort. Dps classes dps, buffers buff, debuffers debuff. If everyone can put out the same numbers then other classes cant compete with utility.