Peco

QFE! This game has been pushed in the direction of DPS for far too long. DPS should play a role, not the only role. Having to change the way your class was meant to function, just to be able to justify the existance of that toon is retarded. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to play it the way you want. I personally don't like to be forced to gear a certain way to be considered a contributing group member. I have little hope that this linear path will change though.

Flipmode

Most of these class balance threads dont stem from group discussions. They speak of raid class balance. And there is never a reason at this moment to take 1 of each of the 24 classes on a raid. You could do without bruisers, bezerkers, wardens, sks and coercers and not miss a beat. Sadly, I have 3 of the toons on that list.

Peco

I meant group in a raiding sense. That is the problem, you should need them. You should be saying, i need this class for these buffs, and or utility. You shouldn't be saying you could do without 1\6 of the classes easily, and for skilled players, you could do without more.

They need to consolidate classes for balance. Something that will most likely not happen in this game. I sincerely doubt SOE could balance 6 classes even.

Flesch Wrought

Not sure if anyone's actually said this yet, but Tiered dps has been gone for like 2 years.

I do agree that there are some balance issues and they are obvious when I (brigand) am nippin the heels of the assassins on dps parses and bring so much more to the raidforce than dps; the same can be said for a handful of other classes as well... and that's not even considering the screwed up tank situation. Designing encounters to only target a crusader is not the way to make them important to the raid force. That's what alts are for.

guapo1

The whole balance thing is a big waste of time and effort. If i was soe i would give the fuck up to. It does not matter wtf they do some one will always complain.

Rhymez

credit me the DPS from my debuffs
uhm i think i own the whole raid in terms of dps bigtime

__________________

Q : This is the afterlife and Im god.

Picard : No Im not dead as I refuse to believe the
afterlife is run by you , the Universe is not so badly designed.

Rhymez

the whole system fails if u hand classes the big fat red I win buttons the most casual players wish for classes like wizards Rangers and whatever else call themselves pure dps class

summoners seriously the only thing the offer to a raid is the heart and shards and that justifies imo the dps they do
your Sorcs cant get there ? too bad they suck they gotta sit down
try again
gear makes a huge difference ,player skill ofc aswell, and skill is where the most ppl fail the game
to measure how a class need to be tweaked is reading the data from end game raiding guilds and not checking the shit out that happens in a casual raid or in heroic instances

Ive seen too much ppl who cant play their class in pickup raids on alts horribly sucking just to be there to grab the fat shineys

those ppl mostly have no clue what theyre doing they have no clue how to gear up and therefor they should be the least to be listened to by the development team

the whole survivability lets let em do more dps is craptalk and far away from being a valid argument

also the argument because class X has more utility than class Y
is it my fucking problem that the ordinary shit sorc or predator cant ooutparse the well played rouge enchanter and start the fuck crying
for balance where obviously balance isnt needed
and if just a small minority understands their classes also not my fucking problem when the majority gets owned on the parse by the so called utility classes who know how to play

__________________

Q : This is the afterlife and Im god.

Picard : No Im not dead as I refuse to believe the
afterlife is run by you , the Universe is not so badly designed.

Ranja

Said the Swashie. Who is perhaps the most OP class in the game right now. When game mechanics prevent you from performing your role as good as someone else,. it is not the fault of the player.

It is always posts like this i love L2P. You suck. And it always comes from a rogue

Demented Penguin

I think the best way to fix the mechanics would be to re-establish where classes sit on the dps charts and revamp the spells to reflect equal hate gain, healing ability, debuffing, and dps in order to give a similar average usefullness. The most survivable tanks should have some of the lowest dps and some pretty hard taunts, and the highest dps should squish in comparison to the other classes. If a wizzy can parse 4.5k, they should also squish in .45 seconds versus if the tanks do 1k dps, they should squish after about 15 seconds. Much longer survivability to allow the healers plenty of leeway to keep them up should also mean that their dps is lower than the classes that get one shotted by a mobs fart. That way, it comes back to the dps doing the dps, the healers doing the healing, the scouts doing the debuffing/utility, and the tanks doing the tanking. Duh, thats how it should be.

In terms of ranking on the dps charts, it should be something similar and along the lines as follows:

(lowest)
Warriors/crusaders
brawlers/scouts/healers
enchanters/healers
summoners
predators/mages (wizzy warlock)
(Highest)

The reasoning why is because out of the tanks, the brawlers have the least mit to take a hit. if they fight a really nasty mob, it'll be really tough because of that missing mit. Their avoidance makes up greatly, but they're really more dps tanks than plate taunting tanks, so they should reflect it. Scouts and some healers should be higher than the tanks since they can't take as many hits and have many more things to worry about besides dpsing, and the boost in dps would allow for a battle priest that *can* dps, or a healer that can heal but be mutually exclusive based on aa spec, not on class. Enchanters have alot of utility purpose, but are in essence mages in a fashion and should reflect such since they squish super easy too. Summoners are much more dps oriented than enchanters, and the pets should push them just above the enchanters since the summoners get pets, and the enchanters get mez/power regen. The wizzy, warlock, and predators are dps. Thats all they are, and by no means should it be hard for them to show that trait.

Sure people are going to flame and hate because they love being the guard with the top dps, top mit, top health, top survivability, top desirability, etc, but as my sig points out, a raid is 24 players all working together with a common goal. NOT 23 slaves to make the guard parse higher. IMO replace the damage on the buckler line with either taunts or part taunt, part damage (for things like the spider fight in tomb of thuuga) and revamp completely where the dps comes from in classes. The mechanics are already fuxor'd beyond any redemption at this point, the only possibility is to either pull a miracle balance out of someones butt, or revamp. Having seen SOE's past performance and their lack there of in both action, ability at improving the game, and at giving a crap, I would have to say I really do not believe a miracle to be in the cards.

But anyway, thats my 1coppers worth, and as i am trashed and getting tired, i'll leave my contribution limited to this comment..

__________________
A raid consists of 24 players all supporting each other with the goal to kill the mob, survive, and get loot. NOT 23 slaves purely to make the guardian parse higher.

Post count does not indicate your intelligence, it just shows how many times you've pushed the submit button. Your intelligence is shown by the words and ideas portrayed by the arguments you make.

Oshef

This game is fucked- Realize it!

WTF does survivability mean, in raids, in everquest 2? One or two people take damage on raids. Everyone else jousts

What does utility mean for a raid? Well you have buffs/debuffs and power regen.. and I think thats all that matters.. This gives a place for bards and enchanters.

The problem comes in when you only need 2 tanks out of 24 people. That is 6 classes, and 2 spots. Same for healers, you don't need that many healers anymore. The tank is the only one taking damage.

So, the most successful thing for the raid becomes to stack it full of enchanters, bards, and DPS. And then two things matter:

A) Can you keep the MT alive
B) How much DPS do you do.