Balanced classes = Normalized DPS - Page 9

Lyger · 07-21-2008, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelounge

Dunno if it has been said, but was thinking earlier...

Why not make the best defensive stance of Warriors convert their dmg to threat. This allows them to keep the same amount of control over the mob, but not make the parse. The middle stance can be for soloing, or if you have good healing in a pug. While the offensive stance will remain the same.

Just something I was thinking about earlier, and honestly it should be applied to any class that can tank, including brigs...

because you ripped that off from me!

Thelounge · 07-21-2008, 09:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Lyger

because you ripped that off from me!

<3 Royalty check is in the mail

Muph · 07-21-2008, 10:16 AM

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Originally Posted by Cenarius

just for you... group instances are not the end game.. no one gives a fuck about it. Can a good played wizards outparse a coercer on raid.. fucking yes so keep your "nerf" somewhere else..

Good fucking god is he right. If I hear one more person talk about how group content mechanics should be affecting the game I'm going to medieval on their ass.

Of course, I'm sure the OP of this quote knew that Coercer dmg is still pretty much based off of people doing your work for you, IE hitting the mob with a melee weapon, or with a spell. And macroing a temp attack to yourself. So if you think that a class that has short reuse timers, constant and consistent damage, shouldn't be outparsing you for quick little fights when your biggest nukes on their 1+ minute timers are down; learn the fucking game by the time you get to 80.

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

I think you want Darkfall... that's completely classless (skill trees).

But back on topic, I do strongly believe that condensing into 12 classes vs the 24 subclasses we have now would have made this game a hell of a lot easier to balance. Eq1 had what... 9 classes? And it wasn't any less fun for it. You don't need a bajillion varieties of scout or mage to enjoy playing a game, you need class dynamics that make sense.

Yeah because it would only make sense to have your Rogue have the offensive and defensive debuffing capabilities as both classes, that's not a necessary class for your raid anymore is it? Oh and fuck it, let's give the enchanters 6 mezs, all of their temp buffs, dps mod and haste to give out (why not just make it one buff!!!!!!!!!!!), and a proc buff, and a decrease hate gain buff. And lets turn the predators into the craziest DPSer in the game consdiering they'll be able to launch off 20k dmg in arrows before running in for another 100k in a matter of seconds. That won't make them higher up on the scale at all. Oh and lets make the sorcerers the same too, that way we don't have to hear about Warlocks complain about multi target encounters, we can just make all single mobs so the dev's lives are easier. Oh and bards will have allllllll the buffs they could ever dream of, hell a melee proc AND a spell proc? dps mod AND haste? You guys are onto something here... Absolute twinkage of every class!

If they merged the classes together we would see literally months of updating and tweaking before all the casuals quit their complaining about this guy does so much more dps in a group then me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochan

The problem is when this game started the classes actually had pretty defined abilities and roles, but as the game went on the lines blurred more and more and with the addition of 2 AA trees the lines have almost become non-existent.

So yes good idea and I fully agree with you, but just saying at the beginning of eq2 most classes ( once you finally achieved the title @ 20 ) behaved very differently imo.

Though I'm pretty sure even then some classes weren't defined enough, which obviously just got worse over time.

Edit : this has prolly been mentioned already though in this thread lol!

AA trees define your play style, in-case you haven't figured that out after 3 expansions now. And Pre-LU 13 was a completely different game Oro. Getting to level 20 didn't mean shit back then and still doesn't now.

Class definition hasn't gotten worse, it's gotten much better. Some mechanics are just affecting some archetypes more so than others and show a different story. If you don't think a swash is an offensive debuffer, well then I don't know what the fuck attacks you're reading. And if you don't think a coercer is the most badass power management system in the game, well give me what you're smoking. And if your warlock doesnt blow away your Wiz on AE fights (the ones that still exist /tear) then they should betray.

My simple assessment, call it ignorance if you will. The people voting and wanting class reductions and consolidation are casuals and groupers. Not raiders. So don't complain about something that takes 6 people to kill please, when you never go out with anyone but 5 others and yourself.

I know I would hate to have to raid with 12 people all of the sudden just because they're just as good as 24, that's not what raiding is about to me, nor is that what an MMO is about; especially one with raid content. It's about diversity and allowing the people to play with their own style; which we've been able to do ever since KoS AAs came out.

Manratten · 07-21-2008, 10:44 AM

Murph said:

Quote:

Good fucking god is he right. If I hear one more person talk about how group content mechanics should be affecting the game I'm going to medieval on their ass.

Well, prepare to go medieval than, because I think it is flat out crazy that you think they shouldn't. Group mechanics should have a huge impact on the game, since, what the hay, grouping is part of the game.

All BS aside, wizards should outdamage a coercer. That's all that wizards do. Now, I am not saying that coercers need to be nerfed, or even wizards need to be buffed. I am saying to dismiss out of hand any observation about damage because they happened in a group is faulty reasoning.

Murph said:

Quote:

If they merged the classes together we would see literally months of updating and tweaking before all the casuals quit their complaining about this guy does so much more dps in a group then me.

I'm going to point out that casuals don't whine near as much as non-casuuals do. You can go to any thread damn near on this board and get that validated if you wish. Heck, one person whined he'd get medieval if someone mentioned group mechanics affecting any part of the game.

Murph said:

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My simple assessment, call it ignorance if you will.

Convinced me!! I'll call it ignorance.

Destined · 07-24-2008, 01:11 PM

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Originally Posted by dakkota

You can balance classes all you want and give them respective roles...but here is the problem. Take a huge pool of players - some clueless people, a huge amount of average players, and a decent handful of well above average players. Now disperse them randomly among all the classes. There you have seemingly unbalanced classes but in reality imo, they are doing their roles good enough and if you think a class doesn't compare with another, chances are you are comparing a shitty player to a good one, not a shitty class to a good one.

agreeded

I've seen bards that own parses its about the player then gear

salle · 07-25-2008, 04:46 AM

Skill of play is the most important part and it's just sad when people don't know how to play their class and instead of trying to improve themselves to become better, learn all the tricks and get a better understanding of group dynamics in eq2 to get the most out of their character they say "nerf class x because they outparsed me"

Seolta · 08-01-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salle

Skill of play is the most important part and it's just sad when people don't know how to play their class and instead of trying to improve themselves to become better, learn all the tricks and get a better understanding of group dynamics in eq2 to get the most out of their character they say "nerf class x because they outparsed me"

Skill of play means fuck all if there's simply no use for certain classes in a raid.

Class selection for raids should be more for flavor as opposed to min/max.

p.s. 24 classes with 24man raids was one of the biggest dumbfuck mistakes SoE ever made.

Rhymez · 08-02-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seolta

Skill of play means fuck all if there's simply no use for certain classes in a raid.

Class selection for raids should be more for flavor as opposed to min/max.

p.s. 24 classes with 24man raids was one of the biggest dumbfuck mistakes SoE ever made.

is this a whine post because SKs are not considered as the only 1 of the 24 classes ?

but 72 men raids with 13 classes were better ? where u had like a minimum of 8 clerics etc it wasnt like a flavour thing either