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Thread: Raid Groups

  1. #1
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    Default Raid Groups

    I know this is probably in detail some where, but through all my searching i cant find a good post on this subject, so i need to make my own.

    Basicly trying to find out exactly what i should have in each group in the ideal situation for standard trash mobs in raids (i understand certain names need certain people) so i need to know what will work most of the time.

    What i've come up with through what i've read and have come to understand is this.

    Group 1 (MT Group)
    1. Guardian
    2. Templar
    3. Defiler
    4. Coercer
    5. Dirge
    6. Druid/Swashy (Swashy best scout for hate transfer)
    Group 2 (OT Group)
    1. Crusader
    2. Templar
    3. Shaman
    4. Dirge
    5. Coercer
    6. Scout (hate transfer)
    Group 3 (Scout DPS)
    1. Inquisitor
    2. Illusionist
    3. Dirge
    4. Scout
    5. Scout
    6. Scout/Sorcerer
    Group 4 (Mage DPS)
    1. Druid
    2. Illusionist
    3. Troubador
    4. Summoner
    5. Sorcerer
    6. Sorcerer

    If any one could give me some insight (along with WHY certain things need to be that certain way) or a good link to a place where its all been said and done before, i would be most grateful.

    Thank you!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    Those groups looks pretty close to in line with my vision of the max dps raid. Criticisms are as follows:

    -You don't need a 2nd coercer for anything. Get an illusionist in the OT group instead for better dps buffs ftw.
    -A sorcerer is non-optimal as the 6th spot in g3, though you could do it in a pinch. Contrary to what some will tell you, mages aren't completely useless without a troubador, though it is of course highly desirable to group them with one.
    -Summoners are useless. Put a 3rd sorcerer in g4 instead.
    -Consider a templar over a druid in g4 for better mage dps buffs.
    -Consider a monk for raid cast haste, either as the OT spot in g2 or a dps spot in g3, though you should definitely have a knight on the guild roster for tanking sets of adds that are difficult to keep aggro on and such.

    Some people will tell you that you should have "hybrid" dps groups that consist of a troubador, illusionist, and a mix of mage and scout dps. The problems with such groups are as follows:

    -Most scouts see a very significant dps drop-off being grouped with a troubador instead of a dirge. Switching out a dirge for a troub, a scout loses dps mod (more needed than troub haste in most cases), base CA damage (assuming dirge mythical epic, more useful than troub base spell damage for a scout), melee accuracy (especially if dirge 6-piece bonus), proc rate increaser, dead calm damage proc, and maybe CoB (if your dirges do not have their mythical epic).
    -Separating the sorcerers from each other and from the potential mage-group templar takes away from those classes' ability to buff each other. Specifically, mages will most notably be missing out on double wiz spell proc, double rays (some mages like rays), and (some mages) templar proc rate increaser.
    -Separating scouts from the inquisitor and/or ranger causes them to lose those classes' buffs. The only way they can partially recover these buffs in the other group is from Fury Agitate or Warden Primitive Instinct (assuming warden 6-piece), assuming one of those priests in the other dps group. Again, however, the best priest for mage buffs is a templar.

    Benefits of "hybrid" setups include:

    -More efficient usage of illusionist special buffs (Time Compression, double attack).
    -Double Maestro for the raid (assuming troubs have mythical epics).
    -Sorcerer damage procs for the dps scouts in the dps groups.
    -Better buffs for the g3 illu.

    If a guild had a lot of really amazing mages, I could see them going with one "hybrid" group and making a brigand deal with being in that group with a troub. However, it's generally pretty bad to be sticking multiple melee dps classes in troubador groups (as opposed to dirge groups). I know for my guild, we have always had a really strong corps of dps scouts, so we keep intact a true scout dps group. I can't say this philosophy is the best for every guild, but it's definitely the best when you have a lot of hardcore scouts.

    -Azleya, Ranger and Officer of Strike
    Lucan D'Lere

  3. #3
    make war, not love firamas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    1 melee DPS class works fine in any standard mage group. You're just looking for somewhere to put the IA at that point. Although technically the troubadour shouldn't be too far behind a brigand in straight autoattack dmg comparisons, lack of extremely high melee crit rate being the difference. Just keep in mind that the melee is losing all of the great benefits of the dirge, and will likely have NO significant DPS buffs. I was "the brig in the mage group" for awhile in my guild, and it worked, but nowhere near as well as being in a proper scout DPS group. Dirges are just too solid.

    I'm not a big fan of hybrid groups. You either have 2 solid mage groups or you have 1 mage group and 1 scout/melee group. Don't try to do too much mix&match, because it drags you down.

  4. #4
    Fancy Pants Tuerk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    I've been looking at getting my guild back into raiding since we've taken a hiatus from it for a while. This is the set up I've been pondering over...

    Group 1 (MT Group)

    Guardian
    Dirge
    Templar
    Defiler
    Assassin
    Coercer

    Group 2 (OT Group)

    Crusader
    Inquisitor
    Fury
    Dirge
    Swash/Brigand
    Illy/Coercer

    Group 3 (DPS)
    Dirge
    Troubador
    Illy
    Mystic (Battle Spec)
    Ranger/Monk
    Warden

    Group 4 (DPS)
    Troubador
    Illy
    Brigand
    Templar
    Wizard
    Mage

    Any thoughts, suggestions or snide remarks?

  5. #5
    LOL
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerk View Post
    I've been looking at getting my guild back into raiding since we've taken a hiatus from it for a while. This is the set up I've been pondering over...

    Group 1 (MT Group)

    Guardian
    Dirge
    Templar
    Defiler
    Warden
    Coercer

    Group 2 (OT Group)

    Paladin
    Mystic
    Templar
    Dirge
    Swash
    Illy

    Group 3 (DPS)
    Dirge
    Ranger
    Illy
    Inquisitor
    Monk
    Brigand

    Group 4 (DPS)
    Troubador
    Illy
    Assassin
    Templar
    Wizard
    Wizard

    Any thoughts, suggestions or snide remarks?

  6. #6
    The blender O_O
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    I like to have 2 brigs in a raid to maximize DPS with timed dispatch.
    Also, I tink crusader are useless. Yes, they can tank the same, yes they have nice aggro, but they do less dps than guard/zerk. I placed a 2nd guard there because it has the ability to get better aggro control than a zerk, but a good zerk can do the job too.

    Group 1 (MT Group)

    Guardian
    Dirge
    Templar
    Defiler
    Warden
    Coercer

    Group 2 (OT Group)

    Guardian
    Inquisitor
    Fury
    Dirge
    Assasin
    Illy

    Group 3 (DPS)
    Dirge
    Brigand
    Illy
    Mystic (Battle Spec)
    Monk
    Swash

    Group 4 (DPS)
    Troubador
    Illy
    Brigand
    Templar
    Wizard
    Warlock
    The word "berserker" today applies to anyone who fights with reckless abandon and disregard to even his own life

    RETIRED


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    inq in the scout group would be better i think if you can do that they have good buffs for scouts and fury in the mage grp fast cast heals and int buff helps but rest looks ok to me

  8. #8
    Done with MMOs, once again.
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    Any guild who still rolls with a Warden in the MT group for 99% of fights has shit MT healers.
    Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos for EverQuest II
    Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest for EverQuest II

  9. #9
    LET'S GO CANES!! Laalon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinski View Post
    Any guild who still rolls with a Warden in the MT group for 99% of fights has shit MT healers.
    Confirmed.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Raid Groups

    This is the best raid you can make at the moment in my opinion:

    Guard
    Defiler
    Templar
    Coercer
    Swash
    Dirge

    Zerk
    Monk
    Dirge
    Templar
    Mystic
    Illus

    Dirge
    Troub
    Illus
    Brig
    Wizard
    Mystic

    Troub
    Warlock
    Wizard
    Ranger
    Inquis
    Illus

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